Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
tm - you interpret as you want them to sound.
How about looking at the verses in context.
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I don't think so. I have studied a passage of scripture that does not harmonize or reconcile with another on the surface. I then studied the Strongs concordance to see what it translated to in the Greek. The definitions do not equate with the relationship of the pastor and saint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Jesus was dealing with an issue among the twelve.
It has parallels with how we should treat one another, but has nothing to do with church government.
There are "assigned" leader ship roles in the church, per the scripture.
If you read the book of Acts, you will see this.
The apostle Paul was a definite leader who also TOLD PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE.
How could he do this if everyone was equal.
There was a meeting of the leaders of the Church to debate how to counsel the Gentiles which were saved. Not the entire church body, but the leaders.
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This is correct. Where were the pastors? They are not mentioned. The scriptural model of the early church was for oversight by the elders (plural) not pastor (singular). When Paul came to Jerusalem he called for the elders (plural) of the church at Ephesus to meet him at Miletus.
Acts.20
[17] And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church
Why didn't he ever mention the pastor? Notice that the elders are plural?
The setting for this meeting was that Paul was never going to see them again. This was his last meeting with them face to face, and they knew it was to be. It was a VERY important meeting. So why wasn't the pastor mentioned if he was the head of the church of Ephesus? Because the elders were given oversight of the church.
I have a question for you (okay a compound one). Who was the pastor of the church of Jerusalem? Colosse? Rome? Phillipi? Macedonia? Corinth? Galatia? Laodicea? Philadelphia? And on and on I could go. Do you know? If you do, please share scripture saying so. Also, do you have any record of a pastor being ordained in the Bible? Please share. How about elders? (plural) Yes!!! There is a record of elders being ordained, but not pastors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
Now, I do not know you, so pardon me for saying this.
But, almost without fail when someone takes the stands you are taking on this thread, it is because they have a problem with authority.
So, tell me, do you have a home church that you attend and someone who is a pastor or leader in your life?
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You are asking if I have a problem with authority. I don't believe I do. Do you have a problem with quoting scripture that the pastor has authority over me? I'd like to see it if you do. Are you a pastor? I think that I remember that you are. Could you quote scripture about submitting? I believe in submitting. Who does the Bible say we are to submit to?
Brother, you seem to want to discount the passage of scripture about being a servant if you are wanting to be the chief.
What does this verse mean to you?
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Does a servant have authority over his master?
Please respond.
By the way, I do have a problem with false doctrine, so if you have scripture to back up what you're saying, that would be appreciated. Okay?
And . . . the answer to the last questions about the home church and the leader/pastor? Yes and yes.
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