Oneness people aren't saved?

[jpr7]

Sorry, I totally forgot about this (plus a few other things on my plate makes it hard to get to get to the forums lately).

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You're right, that's not pros in Romans.

So let me ask, are you saying pros can not be translated "pertaining to" unless it modifies a noun?

That is apparently how the NT writers used it with a verb: overwhelmingly as "to," "toward," or "with."

Originally Posted by Prax

Isn't pros modifying the noun logos in Jn 1? What was with God?

No, the pros governs the noun but modifies the verb.

Originally Posted by Prax

What about the pharisee that prayed (verb) within himself?

Notice that I addressed that. It has a reflexive pronoun attached to it. Also, the middle voice of the verb "prayed" (although thought of in terms of a deponent verb) gives the sense of "within." John 1:1 has a verb that is surely active and an indirect object that is not a reflexive pronoun.

Originally Posted by Prax

BTW Im not saying it has to be "pertaining to", but my point is the preposition is like like para. It doesn't necessarily mean location. In fact it's more directional (towards), and as I have shown with the accusative it can be "pertaining to" and even (in some translations) within.

Can mean doesn't mean it does mean. You haven't given any reasons why it should mean "pertaining to" in John 1:1.

Originally Posted by Prax

usually with the accus. the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, i.e. whither or for which it is predicated):—about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between, ([where-]) by, for, × at thy house, in, for intent, nigh unto, of, which pertain to, that, to (the end that), + together, to (Unregistered) -ward, unto, with (-in)
Strong, J., S.T.D., LL.D. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

The problem with just listing out all the possible definitions is that one can commit the fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer which is transferring every possible definition of a word back into that word. Words generally mean one thing in a given context. In John 1:1 we don't have any indication that pros can mean more than one thing.

Originally Posted by Prax

So what is meant by "with" or even "to" and "toward"?

Toward is directional. And we have with in the context what the word does. The word points to God or reveals God. And that is what Jesus did when here too. He pointed to God. The Logos reveals God and that's probably why some thing logos is "self disclosure".

Notice that I'm not even claiming pros means "to," or "toward" in John 1:1. I go with the traditional translation that virtually every legitimate version goes with: "with." If you think it should be translated something else, then it would be up to you to provide an example of what you believe it should be within other sentences of the same grammatical structure. This should be easy to do, as there are over 500 occurrences of pros with the verb.

Originally Posted by Prax

However one still can not avoid John's own use of Eternal life

I don't even know what you mean by this.

Originally Posted by Prax

I think the topic of the Logos is actually much deeper than what Trinitarians and Oneness Pentecostals make it out to be.

Could be.