The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[augustianian]

THE LEGALIST:

So in James 2 he says justification take place "at" faith? I am strictly referring to James definition and context of "faith" in James 2.

Well that wasn't the questioned you asked.
James is not concerned with that which justifies a person before God but rather that which justifies a person before men, i.e. deeds. However, being justified before men cannot save, by works...being alone without faith. I also think that ignoring the troubles of the early Christian church in Jerusalem is fatal when interpreting James.

But...in reality my answer was consistent with what you asked. You asked me "when reading James..." with "you" (or me) being the assumed subject. In other words you were in essence asking me "When you're reading James..." and I consistently answered in light of how you prefaced your questions. When I'm reading James I assume (safely, I think) that he is quite aware of Paul, especially considering the council of Jerusalem, and justification apart from works "Before God" has to be assumed also for James' argument to be valid, an argument against a dead faith not against justification by faith alone.

I guess I could answer your questions according to the way you read James but I assumed that that was not what you were asking me.

You have ignored my questions. I am strictly talking about James and what he says.

Again, you asked me "When reading James..." (meaning when I read James) and then the questions following...which I answered. Let me say it like this

1."When I read James I take into account that justification takes place at the moment of faith"

And...

2."When I read James I already know that Paul establishes the fact that Abraham's justification in Genesis 15 was a declaration by God that lasted Abraham's lifetime before/after Genesis 22."

Hope that helps.

Look at the text. How does in "the scripture was fulfilled" in James 2 interelate to the context of James points.

Of course when I asked "what are you talking about" I meant it with some incredulity. But I did want to know if you thought that God needed deeds done by man to fulfill His declaration of justification? There's no argument that there is a declaration of righteousness made by God in Genesis 15 and in Romans 3, the issue then becomes what meaning are deeds done given, after such a declaration, in accordance to that declaration? What is the relationship between works after justification, and justification itself. The deeds cannot add to the justification declared, nor take away from it, all they can do is display it. That's it. So the fulfillment is NOT nor can it be a fulfillment or completion of God's activity of justification, for the believer is justified apart from works before God already, consequently making the fulfillment seen and witnessed before men.

Well that's nice now you point to what James says but you have not answered the points concerning what I asked

Actually I have.

augustianian