How many times did you ask God for the Holy Ghost?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Palathais,

Call me "pelathais." Say it it with me... well, I don't really know how to say it.

Originally Posted by mfblume

all one can correctly do about the three step teaching is claim it equates repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name and Holy Ghost baptism with salvation. You cannot take what is claimed to be evidence of the third "step" and accuse it as being equal to salvation. People cannot accuse three steppers of equating tongues with salvation.

I can, and I do. I know that you consider yourself to be something of a "Three Stepper" and I know that you don't hold to the "tongues=saved" idea; but it's still a prominent feature of that group-think process.

Originally Posted by mfblume

If tongues are claimed to be the initial evidence of the Holy Ghost, and

1) the person has already repented

2) and been baptized in Jesus' name,

3) and simply needs to experience the baptism of the Holy Ghost, (and one believes all three "steps" are vital to salvation),

...how else would a "three stepper" describe that person as being saved when we hear that one speak in tongues, having full understanding that tongues are only evidence of the Spirit baptism? Shouting, "they're saved now!" after seeing the person speak in tongues is not equating tongues with salvation. It is believing that tongues is the evidence of salvation, keeping in mind that all three steps are then accomplished and considered to be required for salvation.

Granted. And, the "altar call experience" is what often culminates the whole process; and seeing the convert "speaking in tongues" is what culminates that.

Try this, however: Go to a UPC or other "conservative" OP meeting and say something like, "Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation." The responses you'll get will vary, but a prominent component of the accusations that will be made against you will be that you have said, "You don't need the Holy Ghost to be saved...!!!"

I know, you didn't say that - but that's what will be said about you. It is from this experience myself that I say that most of the outspoken rhetoric of the OP salvation experience does involve the idea that "speaking in tongues = salvation."

"No tongues, no salvation."