09-09-09

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

We are intended to put it all together and realize some accounts mentioned some of the people there and others mentioned others. The truth is, all the people mentioned in all accounts were there.

You are? Where is this idea of what you are intended to do spelled out again? You are now "the one who determines what the truth is" now? I thought the truth was spelled out in the words. What the words say and what you say appear to be different.

What kind of answer is that? It is common sense to put the accounts together. It's so simple, but if you look for errors you will contrive them. But it is all answered by common sense. It's like the sign over Jesus' head on the cross. Each account says something different. The truth is that we are to put all the accounts together to get the full quotation of the superscription.

By the way, why does the Koran teach men to beat their wives?

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."
Qur’an 4:34

By the way, why does the bible teach Christians to beat their children?

He who spares the rod hates his son

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die

BUT: The good news is "Outdated language used to justify corporal punishment of children is set to be removed from new translations of the Christian Bible in Norway". What's a jot or tittle here and there? It has already been removed hasn't it? LOL

THE GOOD NEWS? It is not even a translation. It is a paraphrasing. Come on, know your stuff a bit better.

Your example:

"If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way."
Qur’an 4:15

You left out this part:

"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors"

Leaving it out or not, your "holy" book tells you to beat your wives. Why do you distract attention away from the beating of wives?

What is nice about this Surah is that unless (4) independent witnesses are found, the word of the woman is taken over the accusations of the accuser and the requirement is for the accuser to be flogged.

BUT: It could be worse for them. They could be under the laws spelled out in the bible:

And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Lev 20:10

OH even worse - if a new husband accuses his wife of not being a virgin (bible):

But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die

Or she could be a rape victim under the terms of the bible:

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. Being a rape victim gets you the death penalty?

She is not a rape victim. You miss the whole point of the law. A rape victim cries out. A woman who claims rape and yet did not cry out has lied. You are looking for faults in the bible. You are not honestly reading it to learn what it actually says.

You were saying what again about the Quran?

It teaches you to beat your wives. And you cannot justify it. Spanking children is a far cry from beating wives. And under the New Covenant there is no slaying of anybody since Christ has come and His blood can solve such errors that were not solved under law. Christians do not keep Law of Moses, anyway. But Islamics beat their wives. Find something like that in the New Testament.

Why does the Koran promote hatred of Christians?

The Quran does not promote hatred of Christians. It promotes intolerance of those who have the words in front of them and then choose to not follow them.

Right. Christians who choose not to believe the ways of Islam, you mean.

What the Quran says about Christians:

Also from those who said, "We are Christian," we took their covenant. But they disregarded some of the commandments given to them.

If only they would uphold the Torah and the Gospel, and what is sent down to them herein from their Lord, they would be showered with blessings from above them and from beneath their feet. Some of them are righteous, but many of them are evildoers.
Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people
Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
Say, "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion beyond the truth, and do not follow the opinions of people who have gone astray, and have misled multitudes of people; they are far astray from the right path."
Condemned are those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel, by the tongue of David and Jesus, the son of Mary. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed.
They did not enjoin one another from committing evil. Miserable indeed is what they did.
You would see many of them allying themselves with those who disbelieve. Miserable indeed is what their hands have sent forth on behalf of their souls. GOD is angry with them and, consequently, they will abide forever in retribution.
And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian."

Does not sound like this is teaching hatred to me. Perhaps you are "re-interpreting" like you did earlier with the bible.

Re-interpreting the bible? lol. And you claimed the woman who cried not was a rape victim? You do not honestly read the Bible enough to even be able to learn its truth, and you tell me I am re-interpreting the Bible? The Koran CHANGES partway through its own text!

From:

And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian."

To:

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust." Qur’an 5:51

Mohammed changed his mind after the book was not even finished!

The fact is that the New Testament does not tell us to hate anyone or treat anyone badly as your Koran teaches you, even if people do not accept the Gospel. It tells us to love our enemies. Your "holy" book tells you to dislike them. Can't wiggle out of this one. Your book teaches hatred.

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