SEU (Southern Eastern University) updates

[Pro31:28]

Remember the TV show that used to be on, Cold Case? Where basically something happened in an old case and then when a new clue turned up they would reopen the case (sometimes 50 years later)- in every episode, there was all this junk that came out that no one expected....

This is truly insane!

"Buy the truth and sell it not"... Unless it comes from a really inexpensive diploma mill!!

PS- Baron, remind me never to lie to you!

[*AQuietPlace*]

That's what I thought.

Think it's the same guy?
I'm sure the charges could be false, but it must be the same guy, because at the bottom of the article it says this:


By following the discussions that are taking place on usergroups (just go to Google and do a search of the "groups" section and enter some keywords there which will lead to discussions wherein items in this blog are mentioned) one can see that there are big repercussions that might ensue eventually due to the way that certain people who are connected with Carey are pointedly ignoring the gravity of this story simply out of convenience. The case in point is "Dr" Betty Martini, the self-styled leader of the anti-aspartame movement, who, thanks to her grandstanding all over the internet, mostly in the form of the flame wars she gets into on usergroups and in the "press bulletins" wherein she uses her phony "doctorate" in order to try and give herself the air of credibility that she sorely lacks, has set herself up as the would-be "general" of the aspartame activists.

The problem is that her phony "doctorate" was given to her by Carey, who also regaled himself with a few of them. His shell "institutions" and such are just his creations on flakey websites done with an old, outdated version Microsoft FrontPage and not much more. It was in the name of one of these fantasy institutions that Betty's "Honorary Doctor of Humanities" was bequeathed. Due to the chiding she gets from people over that nonsense, she puts something like "PhD.Hum.Hon." at the end of her name when she uses the "Dr" at the beginning. However, when she wants to submit a post to some forum wherein those of real doctors are preferred, she conveniently drops the alphabet soup part.

[DAII]

Is Wilson UPCI?

https://wec.upci.org/ministers

[Praxeas]

yep

[Jermyn Davidson]

Preston Bradley Carey

[Baron1710]

Is Wilson UPCI?

https://wec.upci.org/ministers

Well he is listed, on the accused child rapists page, as UPC. (Child rapist refers to Bishop Dr. P. BRADLEY CAREY
Founder and Executive President of Schools)

http://www.icwseminary.org/faculty.htm


Pastor ARTHUR C. WILSON
United Pentecostal Church
B.Min., M.Min., D.Min.
Associate Professor of Ministry

[Jermyn Davidson]

"Dr. Ghost Wolf was involved in the initial conception of the World Natural Health Organization with with his friend and colleague Dr. James Dussault, who passed over under still very questionable circumstances. Dr. Ghost Wolf is not associated with the World Natural Health Organization of Washington State, its Supposed Governing Board, or any other organization to which Preston Bradley Carey claims any authority to run, organize or is associated with.

Preston Bradley Carey: Carey acts independently from the original foundation group and the Founders of the World Natural Health Organization, acting without their approval, and with out the blessings of that founding Governing Board. "


This is from a guy distancing himself from P. Bradley Carey... a guy who I think believes that Jesus and John the Baptist spent time studying together in Tibet.


http://www.robertghostwolf.com/

[DAII]

Well he is listed, on the accused child rapists page, as UPC.

http://www.icwseminary.org/faculty.htm


Pastor ARTHUR C. WILSON
United Pentecostal Church
B.Min., M.Min., D.Min.
Associate Professor of Ministry

Say again? What page?

[DAII]

Where for art thou, errant Knight?

[Baron1710]

Say again? What page?

Sorry for the confusion. I edited the post to indicate that it was the page that Dr. Carey has for the school, who also happens to be an accused rapist, that also lists the pastor in question.

[Pro31:28]

This makes the "Shane" situation look like a school yard tussle!!

[Jermyn Davidson]

The World Natural Health Organization's website

http://www.wnho.net/

[notofworks]

Remember the TV show that used to be on, Cold Case? Where basically something happened in an old case and then when a new clue turned up they would reopen the case (sometimes 50 years later)- in every episode, there was all this junk that came out that no one expected....

This is truly insane!

"Buy the truth and sell it not"... Unless it comes from a really inexpensive diploma mill!!

PS- Baron, remind me never to lie to you!


Uh oh....we even got Sis. Baron posting after several silent months! This is now big stuff!!:lol

[Pro31:28]

Uh oh....we even got Sis. Baron posting after several silent months! This is now big stuff!!:lol

I had no choice- This is all he has been talking about for 2 days... I tried to stay away, I really did...

[DAII]

Well he is listed, on the accused child rapists page, as UPC. (Child rapist refers to Bishop Dr. P. BRADLEY CAREY
Founder and Executive President of Schools)

http://www.icwseminary.org/faculty.htm


Pastor ARTHUR C. WILSON
United Pentecostal Church
B.Min., M.Min., D.Min.
Associate Professor of Ministry

Where does Arthur Wilson have his Bachelor's and Master's? His bio page simply says he attended Kent and TBC?

[notofworks]

I had no choice- This is all he has been talking about for 2 days... I tried to stay away, I really did...

Remember the group, "Allies"? Bob Carlisle was the lead singer. GREAT group. Anyway, they had an album titled, "Man With A Mission." They were speaking prophetically of Baron!!

[Baron1710]

Just to recap.

Once the school (Southern Eastern University) was shown to be a diploma mill Dr. Stoneking's website changed to reflect that he attended a different school for his PhD.

Now this new School (Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary) is on its face a sham school. As they say in law Res Ipsa Loquitur.

On The faculty listed for this school we have a fugitive who is accused of child rape, Bishop Dr. P. BRADLEY CAREY and someone who is listed as a UPC minister, ARTHUR C. WILSON.

Knight appears to be either acquainted with both Stoneking or Wilson, or perhaps is Wilson.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

[Baron1710]

Where does Arthur Wilson have his Bachelor's and Master's? His bio page simply says he attended Kent and TBC?

No Clue. This is what is posted on the faculty page for IFCW.

[Jermyn Davidson]

http://www.christianeducationministries.org/


A "college" in Philly directly linked to the Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary, hq'd in SC.

Diploma mills galore!!!

[Baron1710]

Remember the group, "Allies"? Bob Carlisle was the lead singer. GREAT group. Anyway, they had an album titled, "Man With A Mission." They were speaking prophetically of Baron!!

I loved the Allies, even went to see them in concert when they were touring for the Long Way From Paradise album.

[notofworks]

Just to recap.

Once the school (Southern Eastern University) was shown to be a diploma mill Dr. Stoneking's website changed to reflect that he attended a different school for his PhD.

Now this new School (Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary) is on its face a sham school. As they say in law Res Ipsa Loquitur.

On The faculty listed for this school we have a fugitive who is accused of child rape, Bishop Dr. P. BRADLEY CAREY and someone who is listed as a UPC minister, ARTHUR C. WILSON.

Knight appears to be either acquainted with both Stoneking or Wilson, or perhaps is Wilson.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.


Incredible, isn't it?

Baron, recently in a conversation, you told me you were bored with the forum. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that's no longer the case?:toofunny

[DAII]

No Clue. This is what is posted on the faculty page for IFCW.
All I can say is WOW!

[notofworks]

I loved the Allies, even went to see them in concert when they were touring for the Long Way From Paradise album.

That was my all-time favorite Allies album. "Walk With Me Silent" still makes me cry.

[Pro31:28]

Remember the group, "Allies"? Bob Carlisle was the lead singer. GREAT group. Anyway, they had an album titled, "Man With A Mission." They were speaking prophetically of Baron!!

NOW, NOW, NOW- unfortunately your taste is music is shared by the Baron (and I was just getting to like you)...
Yes you are right- He is certainly a Man With a Mission- if only his mission was the dishes this evening... :thumbsup

[Baron1710]

Incredible, isn't it?

Baron, recently in a conversation, you told me you were bored with the forum. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that's no longer the case?:toofunny

Until the thread runs out. :ursofunny

[DAII]

The Lee Stoneking website watch begins now

[*AQuietPlace*]

That was my all-time favorite Allies album. "Walk With Me Silent" still makes me cry.
Me, too. That's the most heart-wrenching song.

[Baron1710]

That was my all-time favorite Allies album. "Walk With Me Silent" still makes me cry.

That was their best album, followed closely by shoulder to shoulder.

Walk with me Silent was a totally different sound, almost late Beatles in the sound.

[notofworks]

NOW, NOW, NOW- unfortunately your taste is music is shared by the Baron (and I was just getting to like you)...
Yes you are right- He is certainly a Man With a Mission- if only his mission was the dishes this evening... :thumbsup

Come on, Baron. Your wife is an internationally known radio celebrity. Do the dishes for her!!!

[Baron1710]

The Lee Stoneking website watch begins now

Don't forget to hit F5 so you can reload the content.

Perhaps we can give him a call? His number was listed with the registration for the website.

[DAII]

I am banking Lee and Wilson are dialing each other or will be soon.

[Baron1710]

Come on, Baron. Your wife is an internationally known radio celebrity. Do the dishes for her!!!

She is setting me up!! I already did the dishes. But she made some awesome Ice cream, potato salad, and pasta salad today to go with my tofu burger.

[notofworks]

Me, too. That's the most heart-wrenching song.

That's SO cool!!! When I talk about this song, everyone always gives me a blank stare! You just made my day!!

[notofworks]

That was their best album, followed closely by shoulder to shoulder.

Walk with me Silent was a totally different sound, almost late Beatles in the sound.


Yeah, totally. Were they good in concert? I never got to see them.

[Baron1710]

I am banking Lee and Wilson are dialing each other or will be soon.

And how do you think that conversation is going?

[Baron1710]

Yeah, totally. Were they good in concert? I never got to see them.

They were, very good. The opened with Long Way from Paradise. Then they played the music for Bryan Duncan, who was not so good.

[notofworks]

They were, very good. The opened with Long Way from Paradise. Then they played the music for Bryan Duncan, who was not so good.

I can believe that. I went to Youtube so I could pull a Scott Hutchinson and post them, and there's nothing there. What's wrong with people??? About the only thing they've got is "Butterfly Kisses". Boo.

[Pro31:28]

Come on, Baron. Your wife is an internationally known radio celebrity. Do the dishes for her!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!:ursofunny
I think I just had Butter pecan ice cream come out of my nose! :ursofunny

[*AQuietPlace*]

That's SO cool!!! When I talk about this song, everyone always gives me a blank stare! You just made my day!!
The Allies are still one of my favorite groups ever. I was able to find most of their albums on cd, so I can still blare it loud while I'm driving down the road. ;)

[Baron1710]

I can believe that. I went to Youtube so I could pull a Scott Hutchinson and post them, and there's nothing there. What's wrong with people??? About the only thing they've got is "Butterfly Kisses". Boo.

It really is sad. You can't find that stuff anywhere.

[Baron1710]

The Allies are still one of my favorite groups ever. I was able to find most of their albums on cd, so I can still blare it loud while I'm driving down the road. ;)

You know who else was very good that just disappeared?

Idle Cure.

[DAII]

And how do you think that conversation is going?

Is this pre or post Knight's foot from mouth extraction surgery?

[notofworks]

The Allies are still one of my favorite groups ever. I was able to find most of their albums on cd, so I can still blare it loud while I'm driving down the road. ;)


I'm jealous. I just went on eBay and found "Long Way From Paradise" and it was $32.99. I just might get it. I don't have any of their stuff anymore. I had it all on cassette and album.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I'm jealous. I just went on eBay and found "Long Way From Paradise" and it was $32.99. I just might get it. I don't have any of their stuff anymore. I had it all on cassette and album.
Did you check Amazon? I didn't pay nearly that much.

[notofworks]

Did you check Amazon? I didn't pay nearly that much.


I'll check it out. Thanks.

[Praxeas]

I prefer something more like Degarmo and Key

[DAII]

Including two PhD's listed from SEU and the Institute - all Art Wilson has listed on Facebook for higher education is TBC '93.

How does one acquire 2 doctorates while never getting a bachelor's or master's, Art?

[DAII]

LS website updated again! Someone screen capture!


Doctor of Christian Philosophy in Christian Education -.. Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus

Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Divinity

Southern Eastern University

Administrative Address in the UK (SEU)

9 Unity Street, Bristol, BS1 5HH

Signed:.. John C. Stacey-Hibbert & Chairman (SEU)

[Baron1710]

Including two PhD's listed from SEU and the Institute - all Art Wilson has listed on Facebook for higher education is TBC '93.

How does one acquire 2 doctorates while never getting a bachelor's or master's, Art?

So now we have a pair of preachers that have made up credentials?

It's easy Dan for a mere $2,000 you can purchase on of your own.

[notofworks]

How does one acquire 2 doctorates while never getting a bachelor's or master's, Art?

Very carefully.

[Baron1710]

Here it is as an attachment.

[Baron1710]

LS website updated again! Someone screen capture!


Doctor of Christian Philosophy in Christian Education -.. Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus

Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Divinity

Southern Eastern University

Administrative Address in the UK (SEU)

9 Unity Street, Bristol, BS1 5HH

Signed:.. John C. Stacey-Hibbert & Chairman (SEU)

??????

Who puts this on a bio.

Lee we already know where the Diploma mill is located. Get it together man.

[Baron1710]

LS website updated again! Someone screen capture!


Doctor of Christian Philosophy in Christian Education -.. Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus

Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Divinity

Southern Eastern University

Administrative Address in the UK (SEU)

9 Unity Street, Bristol, BS1 5HH

Signed:.. John C. Stacey-Hibbert & Chairman (SEU)

UHHH Dan...

John C. Stacey is listed as being associated with the London School of Economics and Political Science, Houghton Street, London WC2A 2AE, UK

Now I am not sure what this school is but...the address listed on Lee's website is neither the address of LSEPS nor SEU.

SEU lists their address as

UK Administrative Office:
Southern Eastern (SEU)
PO Box 108 - Manchester
M11 0AQ
ENGLAND

Let the misinformation continue. The cover up is always worse than the crime. but hey at least it is signed...what the heck does that mean?

[Praxeas]

weird

[Baron1710]

weird

Prax, We agree. Weird. Is this what a giant looks like before he falls?

The changes to the website seem desperate.

[Praxeas]

The funny thing is the part about the Phd from the other University was in bold...like they were trying to make a point?

[notofworks]

The funny thing is the part about the Phd from the other University was in bold...like they were trying to make a point?

That's what I wondered. It's in bold and it's like, "If you don't believe it, it's SIGNED!!!"

You know they have a dilemma, though. He wants to post degrees, but now there's a forum that he hates that is on his tail. He doesn't want to appear to be responding to this forum, but he has no choice. But he wants to post the degrees. It must suck.

[Baron1710]

The funny thing is the part about the Phd from the other University was in bold...like they were trying to make a point?

That's what I wondered. It's in bold and it's like, "If you don't believe it, it's SIGNED!!!"

You know they have a dilemma, though. He wants to post degrees, but now there's a forum that he hates that is on his tail. He doesn't want to appear to be responding to this forum, but he has no choice. But he wants to post the degrees. It must suck.

I am just crakin' up here.

Tell us Lee is this how Jim Baker felt right before the end?

I see he will be in Virginia at the end of the month, maybe I will cruise over and do a Bill O'Reilly investigative report. LOL.

[shag]

Even if, as it seems, there are men in the wrong...

Let us remember,

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.....
Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness


:grampa

[Jermyn Davidson]

Where is his leadership?

To whom is he accountable?

[Praxeas]

I think it's now time to do a Stoneking watch...surely he or someone else will condemn this forum and all on it for "touching the anointed"...keep your ears open

[Cindy]

I wonder how much gossip this thread may start. Not questions or fact finding missions. Just plain old gossip. And lies, not just by who some think will lie. But by others who will spread rumors and lies about more people. Oh well, I guess lies just die down after awhile and no one but the liars will be harmed, right?

[DAII]

Someone please do one of those Google Earth maps of the sprawling campus at:

9 Unity Street, Bristol, BS1 5HH

[DAII]

Hello Knighty!

How ART, thou?

[Praxeas]

It looks like some sort of apartment or office building

[DAII]

It looks like some sort of apartment or office building
This site seems to have that address listed as private condo apartments:

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/unity-street-bristol-bs1/

[pelathais]

Someone please do one of those Google Earth maps of the sprawling campus at:

9 Unity Street, Bristol, BS1 5HH

Number 9 Unity Street is listed as being a drinking establishment known as "The Tube" on Google Earth. The street view shows it to be a restaurant "formerly Harvey's" that is now on the market. The first floor windows of Number 9 Unity Street are boarded up and the second floor is deserted.

The top two floors of the building are being let out as "duplexes." It appears that Southern Eastern University of Bristol is no more; at least not at it's listed location.

Since this "institution" is forbidden to hand out diplomas in the U.K. it is probably able to move about there without too much disruption to the "education" thing that they do.

[DAII]

Number 9 Unity Street is listed as being a drinking establishment known as "The Tube" on Google Earth. The street view shows it to be a restaurant "formerly Harvey's" that is now on the market. The first floor windows of Number 9 Unity Street are boarded up and the second floor is deserted.

The top two floors of the building are being let out as "duplexes." It appears that Southern Eastern University of Bristol is no more; at least not at it's listed location.

Since this "institution" is forbidden to hand out diplomas in the U.K. it is probably able to move about there without too much disruption to the "education" thing that they do.
Wow. How quaint, a pub.

That seems more accurate:

One of apartments here?

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/9-unity-street/bristol/bs1-5hh/27342503

[pelathais]

Wow. How quaint, a pub.

That seems more accurate:

One of apartments here?

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/9-unity-street/bristol/bs1-5hh/27342503

The Bing Map on that page is centered on the nearby Brandon Hill Park - probably something the agent did to highlight the area.

"The Tube" and then "Harvey's" don't appear to be your typical "quaint" pubs, just transient eateries where one might obtain a pint. The establishment appears to be vacant now.

[DAII]

The Bing Map on that page is centered on the nearby Brandon Hill Park - probably something the agent did to highlight the area.

"The Tube" and then "Harvey's" don't appear to be your typical "quaint" pubs, just transient eateries where one might obtain a pint. The establishment appears to be vacant now.
Very strange, strange day in forum land. Trying to process all of this.

As said before, tip of the iceberg.

[DAII]

Would be interesting to interview the former proprietors or neighbors on their take of SEU.

[Praxeas]

Why is it so important to be called Dr or Professor for some? I know people that are going to real schools, year by year or even longer since they also have to work full time at real accredited schools. I don't give a hoot if an evangelist or pastor does not have a Phd.

[notofworks]

Why is it so important to be called Dr or Professor for some? I know people that are going to real schools, year by year or even longer since they also have to work full time at real accredited schools. I don't give a hoot if an evangelist or pastor does not have a Phd.


You know, really Prax, this is the bottom line of all this, isn't it? Would LS get one single more speaking engagement if he has a phd listed, or one less if he didn't? I don't think so. Before all this hooey, I didn't know he claimed any education besides ABI. Doesn't this point to it all being about ego? Seems so to me.

[Jason B]

UHHH Dan...

John C. Stacey is listed as being associated with the London School of Economics and Political Science, Houghton Street, London WC2A 2AE, UK

Now I am not sure what this school is but...the address listed on Lee's website is neither the address of LSEPS nor SEU.

SEU lists their address as

UK Administrative Office:
Southern Eastern (SEU)
PO Box 108 - Manchester
M11 0AQ
ENGLAND

Let the misinformation continue. The cover up is always worse than the crime. but hey at least it is signed...what the heck does that mean?

You guys are relentless! If I ever need a lawyer I know where to find one!

[Jason B]

Number 9 Unity Street is listed as being a drinking establishment known as "The Tube" on Google Earth. The street view shows it to be a restaurant "formerly Harvey's" that is now on the market. The first floor windows of Number 9 Unity Street are boarded up and the second floor is deserted.

The top two floors of the building are being let out as "duplexes." It appears that Southern Eastern University of Bristol is no more; at least not at it's listed location.

Since this "institution" is forbidden to hand out diplomas in the U.K. it is probably able to move about there without too much disruption to the "education" thing that they do.

WOW.

See my wife thought about signing up for AFF, but I told her

"You cannot say ANYTHING on AFF without someone questioning it. If you sign up, you'd better be ready for a challenge!"

[Praxeas]

anyone want to hire us as investigators? :ursofunny

[DAII]

SEU makes Dr. John Bear's book of degree mills.

List of Chapter 25 Diploma Mills (Dr. Bear's book 12th edition) from the UK. One of these is apparently Lee Stoneking's and Art Wilson's "alma mater".

Academy College of Holy Studies
Academy of the Science of Man
Albany Educational Services
Avatar Episcopal University
Avatar International University
Brantridge Forest School
British College of Soma-Therapy
British Collegiate Institute
Broadhurst University
California Institute of Higher Learning
Central School of Religion
City Medical Correspondence College
College of Applied Science London
College of Divine Metaphysics
College of Spiritual Sciences
Collegium Technologicum Sussexensis Britannia
Creative University of Southeast London
Cromwell University
Ecclesiastical University of Sheffield
Episcopal University of London
European College of Science and Man
Faraday College
Gordon Arlen College
Harley University
Inter-State College
International Protestant Birkbest College
London College of Physiology
London College of Theology
London Educational College
London Institute for Applied Research
London School for Social Research
London Tottenham International Christian University
Lyne College
Metropolitan Collegiate
Ministerial Training College
Morton-Colwyn University
National Ecclesiastical University
National University of Sheffield
Nebraska College of Physical Medicine
Newcastle University
Northwest London University
Obura University
Oxford College of Applied Science
Oxford Institute for Applied Research
Saint John Chrysostom College
School of Applied Sciences
School of Psychology and Psychotherapy
Shield College
South Eastern Extension College
Southern Eastern University
Sussex College of Technology
Trinity Collegiate Institute
United Free University of England
Universal Ecclesiastical University
Universitas Iltiensis
Universitates Sheffieldensis
University in London
University of Coventry
University of England
University of England at Oxford
University of Sheffield
University of Sulgrave
University of the Old Catholic Church
University of the Science of Man
University of Winchester
West London College of Technology
Western Orthodox University
Whitby Hall College
Wordsworth Memorial University

[DAII]

Apparently Dr. Bear is one of the foremost experts on degree mills and distance learning

" He is the author of Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees by Distance Learning, whose 16th edition was published in 2006." - Wiki

[Praxeas]

what about the other university?

[Praxeas]

http://bryanth798.tripod.com/

[pelathais]

WOW.

See my wife thought about signing up for AFF, but I told her

"You cannot say ANYTHING on AFF without someone questioning it. If you sign up, you'd better be ready for a challenge!"

Well now, I would challenge that assertion. You can ... ... never mind. sorry! http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

[Jeffrey]

Why is it so important to be called Dr or Professor for some? I know people that are going to real schools, year by year or even longer since they also have to work full time at real accredited schools. I don't give a hoot if an evangelist or pastor does not have a Phd.

I care if they are posturing as a scholar on a subject.

Not relying on other scholars, but coming up with ideas about witches and matter-of-fact interpretations of uncertain passages... yeah, I want to know your credentials.

And maybe a Ph.D. isn't essential, but I think every Pastor should be striving for higher learning.

[Jeffrey]

I prefer something more like Degarmo and Key

Now you're talking.

J-E-S-U-S

[Jeffrey]

LS website updated again! Someone screen capture!


Doctor of Christian Philosophy in Christian Education -.. Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus

Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Divinity

Southern Eastern University

Administrative Address in the UK (SEU)

9 Unity Street, Bristol, BS1 5HH

Signed:.. John C. Stacey-Hibbert & Chairman (SEU)

The site was updated?? They indicated the Ph.D. was in Divinity? One of the highest lauded programs? Bwaaahahahahaha

[pelathais]

The site was updated?? They indicated the Ph.D. was in Divinity? One of the highest lauded programs? Bwaaahahahahaha

Daniel, what did you do to this poor suffering individual?

Here is a screen shot of his "Credentials" list from the Google cache dated July 1, 2010:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4763394926_54ddfed77a_b.jpg

Here is the newly updated "Credentials" as of this evening/morning on July 5, 2010:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/4762752181_5069feba9a_b.jpg

[pelathais]

He has added the "new" Ph.D. from the Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary and the address for the flat behind "Harvey's" - a drinking establishment in Bristol.

He also appears to have aged a year.

ah! A correction appears to be in order as well...

By following the Real Estate listings and Google's little "pin point" locator, I seem to have been led to the wrong side of Unity Street in Bristol. Our destination is across the street from the defunct Harvey's and not behind it. Behind the green door at number 9, is where we will find our adjutant faculty offices and diploma mill. I have to say, this side of the street is a bit more occupied, but with Harvey's and "The Tube" gone we are put out for a place to meet the faculty for lunch.

[pelathais]

All of this occurred *** coincidentally *** at the same time that this discussion here on AFF about his "Ph.D." from "Southern Eastern" has been going on.

[pelathais]

Here is a screen shot of the time stamp from the Google cache:

(see attached file).

[pelathais]

But what about this "new" credential that our friend and brother is now touting. Well...

Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus: http://www.icwseminary.org

wow.

You've really got to question the judgment of a "leader" who touts something like this as a "credential." I am saddened.

[pelathais]

what about the other university?

http://bryanth798.tripod.com/

That's disturbing. According to the Anacortes, WA, police department, one of the "Doctors" (a male) who gave Lee his second claimed "Doctorate" dresses up "like a girl" while involved in felony acts with a child.

Since Lee is reading this (just check the timing of the updates to his website):

... dude! Stop.

Just stop associating with these wild and crazed people and "institutions." You don't need this garbage. Delete all these references from your website, square your shoulders and make balanced assertions concerning who you are in Christ.

Nobody needs these "credentials" - why on God's green earth would anyone want something like this? Drop the facade and just go with who you really are. Let the arguments rise or fall on their own merits. Being wrong about something once or twice doesn't make someone a bad person.

But, always trying to be "right" will tend to tear your soul apart at the seams.

Please! Stop.

[DAII]

That's disturbing. According to the Anacortes, WA, police department, one of the "Doctors" (a male) who gave Lee his second claimed "Doctorate" dresses up "like a girl" while involved in felony acts with a child.

Since Lee is reading this (just check the timing of the updates to his website):

... dude! Stop.

Just stop associating with these wild and crazed people and "institutions." You don't need this garbage. Delete all these references from your website, square your shoulders and make balanced assertions concerning who you are in Christ.

Nobody needs these "credentials" - why on God's green earth would anyone want something like this? Drop the facade and just go with who you really are. Let the arguments rise or fall on their own merits. Being wrong about something once or twice doesn't make someone a bad person.

But, always trying to be "right" will tend to tear your soul apart at the seams.

Please! Stop.

Okay read on doctor Carey and I am officially sick

[DAII]

Daniel, what did you do to this poor suffering individual?

Here is a screen shot of his "Credentials" list from the Google cache dated July 1, 2010:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4763394926_54ddfed77a_b.jpg

Here is the newly updated "Credentials" as of this evening/morning on July 5, 2010:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/4762752181_5069feba9a_b.jpg

In between .... we find this edit to the site which indicates a struggle of sorts whether or not keep the SEU credential on the site when only the 'new' Institute PhD was unveiled circa July 4 am.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TDDhc4-wgaI/AAAAAAAAAkY/Spsuys8OWXo/lsjuly4.png


This posted by fellow AFFer, Mental @ 12:01 PM

It's a good thing you grabbed this. Stoneking's credentials are already starting to change. This is very sad.

Education:

High School Graduate
Seminary Graduate
Graduated from Apostolic Bible Institute, St. Paul, Minnesota in 1967 as Honor Student of the Year and awarded Scholarship Award Certificate.

Degrees:

Bachelor of Theology in Apostolic Studies
Apostolic Bible College - St. Paul, Minnesota
Doctor of Christian Philosophy in Christian Education - Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus

Making it two edits as this thread developed in about a 24-48 hour window.

[pelathais]

"... do I keep the old SEU doctorate even though Harvey's isn't around anymore to serve up their delicious fish & chips, or do I just tout the doctorate I received from the felonious Dr. Carey?"

[DAII]

"... do I keep the old SEU doctorate even though Harvey's isn't around anymore to serve up their delicious fish & chips, or do I just tout the doctorate I received from the felonious Dr. Carey?"
Of course we must examine Knight's contribution to the thread ... as Knight confessed to "hosting" the Prophetic Word Conference, fellow AFFer Justin attended a month ago in which LS preached his HMH message.

Also Knight seemed to have posted as Lee's British lawyer ... only to retract that initial claim as only being part of a group of interested "supporters".
Hummm

I hosted the PWC conference... are you bad mouthing our meeting, and calling us a cult???

This conference is hosted by the International Church of Wayne (MI), pastored by Art Wilson who coincidentally has PhD's from the same institutions as Lee.

http://www.pwawc.com/

[Justin]

Can someone give me a summary of this thread? Both LS and AW were mentioned thus far and I saw both last month at a prophecy conference.

[DAII]

Art Wilson's Curriculim Vitae .... eerily similar's to LS:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TDHaqDAaGLI/AAAAAAAAAkg/bgSbh6ZOn-o/Art%20Wilson%20Bio.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TDHaqNoDqOI/AAAAAAAAAkk/9NSWwPJVIqE/Art%20Wilson%20Bio%202.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TDHaqkQZGNI/AAAAAAAAAko/JWlhkPcso-4/art%20wilson%20fb.jpg

One can read more on the exploits, resources and books available by Professor Art Wilson here: http://www.artwilson.com/
The doctorates apparently received without a bachelor's or master's degree conferred at anytime during this illustrious career.

Coincidentally Art's wife has similar credentials.

And Professor Wilson, teaches as an instructor for the the UPCI's Purpose Institute's Wayne campus

http://purposeinstitute.com/about-faculty.aspx

(Use drop down menu at bottom of page)

[DAII]

When does the UPCI give out Local License in honor for community work???

From AW's bio:

"On January of 1996, and in recognition for this esteemed work within the community, the United Pentecostal Church, Inc., awarded and honored Pastor Wilson with a Local License."

[Baron1710]

Dan, on the first page second to last sentence, Herf Jones? They sell yearbooks to schools.

[DAII]

Dan, on the first page second to last sentence, Herf Jones? They sell yearbooks to schools.

Right ... I was just about to post ... they are a cap and gown company ... what is a Leadership consultant needed for???

Dr. Wilsons career was integrated with his vision to work with young people. He was employed by the Genesee Regional Detention Center as a Youth Specialist. Later on, he was employed by Herff Jones as a Leadership Consultant for the Detroit Public Schools.

To hawk commencement wear? Visionary.

[DAII]

"... do I keep the old SEU doctorate even though Harvey's isn't around anymore to serve up their delicious fish & chips, or do I just tout the doctorate I received from the felonious Dr. Carey?"

Art ... flip a coin.

[pelathais]

Right ... I was just about to post ... they are a cap and gown company ... what is a Leadership consultant needed for???

Dr. Wilsons career was integrated with his vision to work with young people. He was employed by the Genesee Regional Detention Center as a Youth Specialist. Later on, he was employed by Herff Jones as a Leadership Consultant for the Detroit Public Schools.

To hawk commencement wear? Visionary.

There are no updates regarding his ministerial licensing. Is he still "honored" to be a Local Licensed minister?

I'm not knocking the Local License, but c'mon. You can't even perform weddings yet.

[DAII]

Franzone and Dussault linked to the founder of the Institute, Doctor Bradley .... and the WNHO which he heads ... found dead. Conspiracy theorists ... have at it:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=552.0

[DAII]

There are no updates regarding his ministerial licensing. Is he still "honored" to be a Local Licensed minister?

I'm not knocking the Local License, but c'mon. You can't even perform weddings yet.

I'm mad because I had to take a test ... complete an application and pay dues.
:razz

[DAII]

Welcome, Knight!

How ART thou?

[Knight]

few answers:
Wilson was honored with these PhDs, He accepted them, Him and LS has a friend that was connected to those schools that recommended them for Honor.. there was nothing sinister about that, anyone can be given a life time achievment PhD, But they both did work and thesis submition with the schools.. Herff Jones created a "leadership in the movies" division for Detroit schools to help with the drop out rate... Wilson headed that department. Wilson is now an Ordained Min.
The accusations at ICW? well every organization has had failures, name one that hasn't, including church organizations, family, friends, and plenty of schools. however we still dont know the facts to the total outcome.
You guys should be ashamed of the gossip you are spreading..

[Knight]

Hello
DaII

[DAII]

few answers:
Wilson was honored with these PhDs, He accepted them, Him and LS has a friend that was connected to those schools that recommended them for Honor.. there was nothing sinister about that, anyone can be given a life time achievment PhD, But they both did work and thesis submition with the schools.. Herff Jones created a "leadership in the movies" division for Detroit schools to help with the drop out rate... Wilson headed that department. Wilson is now an Ordained Min.
The accusations at ICW? well every organization has had failures, name one that hasn't, including church organizations, family, friends, and plenty of schools. however we still dont know the facts to the total outcome.
You guys should be ashamed of the gossip you are spreading..

Those degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on ... they are from degree mills ... and to capitalize on them by posting them on one's public bio, books, resources, etc. to stroke one's ego is shameful and a blatant misrepresentation.

The fact checking on this thread has been impeccable.

Please explain "Leadership in the Movies" for me.

[Knight]

Misrepresentation,

You have no right to say that, and if it was misleading the schools wouldnt be posted.. no ones hiding anything, this is how you get your kicks..

[DAII]

Misrepresentation,

You have no right to say that, and if it was misleading the schools wouldnt be posted.. no ones hiding anything, this is how you get your kicks..

Yes. Misrepresentation.

They are degree mills profiting from the avarice, arrogance or ignorance of those who engage in possessing these degrees.

Mr. Wilson is no more a professor than I am a super hero.
:bigbaby

[*AQuietPlace*]

WOW.

See my wife thought about signing up for AFF, but I told her

"You cannot say ANYTHING on AFF without someone questioning it. If you sign up, you'd better be ready for a challenge!"
This is so true. :lol I think through every single teeny word before I post it.

I like it, though, it keeps me on my toes. ;)

[jfrog]

Those degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on ... they are from degree mills ... and to capitalize on them by posting them on one's public bio, books, resources, etc. to stroke one's ego is shameful and a blatant misrepresentation.

The fact checking on this thread has been impeccable.

Please explain "Leadership in the Movies" for me.

You forgot that he mentioned LS's honorary degree which the institution that gave it to him has no record of... (Baron called and asked them). You need to correct him on that too ;)

[Knight]

JFrog

That question was answered, you need to be corrected on that.. USA new staff John was not up to date on overseas info..

[DAII]

You forgot that he mentioned LS's honorary degree which the institution that gave it to him has no record of... (Baron called and asked them). You need to correct him on that too ;)

Knight claims these credentials were given to admin.

And LS posted an address for the degree mill ... an address that is a semi-detached home

[jfrog]

JFrog

That question was answered, you need to be corrected on that.. USA new satff John was not up to date on overseas info..

Not that one. The honorary degree from PTS.

[Timmy]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!:ursofunny
I think I just had Butter pecan ice cream come out of my nose! :ursofunny

Just goes to show. No thread is immune to hijacking. :toofunny

[DAII]

Knight please explain the Leadership in the Movie division at Herff.

Did you really host the Prophetic Word conference?

In addition any clarity you can give to the fluff any casual reader can see in AW's bio ... would be greatly appreciated ... in addition to the earned high school diploma.

[Knight]

Why?

[Knight]

Earned?

[DAII]

Why?

Because you have made various unfounded claims on this forum ...

1. being a British lawyer then later retracting
2. hosting the Prophetic Word conference
3. Honorary degrees granted on a lifetime of work by reputable institutions ...
4. Stating LS degrees were submitted to admin

quite frankly AW is no older than 40 and his resume is wanting in regards to lifetime achievement .... having no more than a high school diploma and a fairly nascent ministry.

[Knight]

no one made those claims, because you got confused. I cleared it up.. it was a copy of discussions that we being made.. I said I am not that lawyer.. stop playing games...

you have a problem with the appiontments because he is 42? thats your problem..

what do you mean hosting the PWC?

[DAII]

The accusations at ICW? well every organization has had failures, name one that hasn't, including church organizations, family, friends, and plenty of schools. however we still dont know the facts to the total outcome

Pedophilia is nothing to gloss over ... The Roman Catholic Church is still learning that ....

[DAII]

no one made those claims, because you got confused. I cleared it up.. it was a copy of discussions that we being made.. I said I am not that lawyer.. stop playing games...

you have a problem with the appiontments because he is 42? thats your problem..

what do you mean hosting the PWC?

You made the claim on this thread:
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=30251&page=31

Here is your quote:

Hummm

I hosted the PWC conference... are you bad mouthing our meeting, and calling us a cult???


It is how the AW ... LS connection was made in the first place. Courtesy of Y-O-U.

Perhaps you should step up to the plate?

[Knight]

I agree, no one jokes about those things dude.... but the point was people do fall, wish I could stop that.. but its every where...

[notofworks]

That's disturbing. According to the Anacortes, WA, police department, one of the "Doctors" (a male) who gave Lee his second claimed "Doctorate" dresses up "like a girl" while involved in felony acts with a child.

Since Lee is reading this (just check the timing of the updates to his website):

... dude! Stop.

Just stop associating with these wild and crazed people and "institutions." You don't need this garbage. Delete all these references from your website, square your shoulders and make balanced assertions concerning who you are in Christ.

Nobody needs these "credentials" - why on God's green earth would anyone want something like this? Drop the facade and just go with who you really are. Let the arguments rise or fall on their own merits. Being wrong about something once or twice doesn't make someone a bad person.

But, always trying to be "right" will tend to tear your soul apart at the seams.

Please! Stop.


There's a lot of hacking going on in this thread, a lot of it in fun, but when you stop for a moment and seriously ponder the goings-on, this really is the bottom line of it all. There isn't a single need for any of this.

[Knight]

Step up to the plate?

I didnt deny that I hosted PWC... You said Hello Knight How Art You.. I said Hi... nothing to hide.... Im at the Plate.

[DAII]

I agree, no one jokes about those things dude.... but the point was people do fall, wish I could stop that.. but its every where...

Bro, I am 37 years old. Hold a BA in American History from City University of New York, Queens College and a Master's Degree in Education (Special Education) from Touro College ... born and raised around ministry and held a local license with the org ....

And I don't dare call myself a doctor or professor when I have not earned it.

And would not, if given a piece of paper from these institutions.

[DAII]

Step up to the plate?

I didnt deny that I hosted PWC... You said Hello Knight How Art You.. I said Hi... nothing to hide.... Im at the Plate.

Art, do you have any issues claiming to be a professor when most equate that to having the integrity, credibility and gravitas of an accredited degree beyond high school ... much less claimng a doctorate from a non-reputable post-graduate institution?

Where I'm from that's "false claiming".

[notofworks]

There are no updates regarding his ministerial licensing. Is he still "honored" to be a Local Licensed minister?

I'm not knocking the Local License, but c'mon. You can't even perform weddings yet.


...and everyone who promises not to watch TV gets one....at least in my day.

[DAII]

...and everyone who promises not to watch TV gets one....at least in my day.
Art likes to watch The Office ... at least that what his FB profile reads.

[Knight]

I studied at Kent, TBC, MCC, and also ICW.. I have school credits galore they compiled them and honored them.... Just that simple... lots of unaccredited school out there.. you can slam them but thats your opinion..

[Knight]

you guys are funny... the Office is on video.. watch with clear play

[notofworks]

I studied at Kent, TBC, MCC, and also ICW.. I have school credits galore they compiled them and honored them.... Just that simple... lots of unaccredited school out there.. you can slam them but thats your opinion..


Knight, you created a stir when you first arrived. You're fizzling. Quickly. Badly. You shoulda stopped while you were ahead!!:lol

[DAII]

I studied at Kent, TBC, MCC, and also ICW.. I have school credits galore they compiled them and honored them.... Just that simple... lots of unaccredited school out there.. you can slam them but thats your opinion..
When did you go to Kent? My sister went there but she's 35 so she probably attended after you.

I think most who understand how the conferment of titles works understand it the way I just explained it to you ....

Again, Art in the eyes of academia ... you are not a doctor or a professor.

[DAII]

you guys are funny... the Office is on video.. watch with clear play

I think the Position paper regarding Video of 1982 clearly addresses watching such content by org ministers.

[Knight]

Just a Honorary DaII, many people recieve them....

[DAII]

Just a Honorary DaII, many people recieve them....
Many do.... even Al Gore .... but they do not capitalize on the titles of Doctor or Professor either .... on their sites, books, resources, et al.

And I think that the Honorary part should be CLEARLY STATED in any bio or vitae.

[DAII]

I believe that 1 Thes. 5:22 should be a guiding principle in such matters:

5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

[Knight]

Thats fine, but no one hid the school to deceive. we state everything..

[DAII]

Thats fine, but no one hid the school to deceive. we state everything..

As the bios read presently on your page and LS' page .... it can be easily misconstrued as deceptive as they do not state the honorary conferment.

Personally, I'd be hesitant to even post them prominently because of personal issues with degree mills.

[Baron1710]

JFrog

That question was answered, you need to be corrected on that.. USA new staff John was not up to date on overseas info..

Not to call you a liar but...

John Johnson (snicker) is not USA "faculty" there is no US campus just a mail drop that is forwarded, this is easy to figure out when multiple businesses have the same address.

Here is part of an email from John Johnson:

If accepted as a student you will be informed by both post and e-mail with details of how your studies should proceed.

Whist SEU is American its current administrative base is in the UK hence fees are expressed in ponds stirling.

The faculty member assigned would be determined by their availability after you register.

I do not know where you have found Lee Stoneking, have you been looking at a different university? If as you say he appears as an adjunct faculty member please could you send me the link to that information?

[Baron1710]

Not that one. The honorary degree from PTS.

That was Treece. Which I have no record of Treece actually claiming, others have said he claimed that to be fair.

[DAII]

That was Treece. Which I have no record of Treece actually claiming, others have said he claimed that to be fair.

Yes, the Treece degree is also in question.

[DAII]

Knight, this is about transparency and full disclosure with the idea, or notion, of truth in advertising.

We cannot proclaim to monopolize Truth in regards to our theological paradigms while misrepresenting, and even shaming, the Kingdom in the mundane.

Personally, I have zero ill will towards you, or animosity. Simply taking your comments and choice to dialog on this public platform to their logical conclusion ... at least in my pea-sized brain.

Sent you a friend request.

[jfrog]

That was Treece. Which I have no record of Treece actually claiming, others have said he claimed that to be fair.

ah. my mistake.

[Knight]

What about this approach Daniel..

Hey I noticed some things on your Bio that can be made more clear..

you would gain a friend in me.. but this stuff????

[DAII]

What about this approach Daniel..

Hey I noticed some things on your Bio that can be made more clear..

you would gain a friend in me.. but this stuff????

We can make this about me ... no issues in that ... this community knows Dan Alicea for the last 3 years, since its inception ... some years and decades before that .... and have posted under my name for the bulk of it.

You can reference SDG .... in the member's list for future reference.

I have even met members and admins from this community during this time ... making lifelong friendships ...

But please .... most don't confuse the choices made on a social networking page to a ministry or business website.

Albeit .... not withstanding .... such obfuscation and deflection on your part will still not address the deceptive practice of using a title not earned or clearly stated or inaccurately communicated for profitable gain.

You see, I am not Doctor or Professor Dan .... I'm just Dan.

And everyone here know's I'm more APOSTOLIC THAN YOU'LL EVER BE :)

[Knight]

Make this about you? not my intension,
not earned? not true already talked about my credits and schooling.
those statements about not earning a bach, or Masters not true either.. just posted the end result..
Herff Jones statements not true? I cleared that up..
Deceptive???? just a attack

So why the friend request?

[DAII]

Make this about you? not my intension,
not earned? not true already talked about my credits and schooling.
those statements about not earning a bach, or Masters not true either.. just posted the end result..
Herff Jones statements not true? I cleared that up..
Deceptive???? just a attack

So why the friend request?

Art, you earn bachelor's and master's degrees before a doctorate but obviously not the case in the honorary doctorate you possess ... it's the rightful and customary sequence that we as a learned culture place on such things.

We cannot walk before we run ... there is a value behind these titles and degrees and to recklessly and flippantly use them illegitimately is to degrade and debase them.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Art, you earn bachelor's and master's degrees before a doctorate but obviously not the case in the honorary doctorate you possess ... it's the rightful and customary sequence.

We cannot walk before we run ... there is a value behind these titles and degrees and to recklessly and flippantly use them illegitimately is to degrade and debase them.
I completely agree with this.

[Knight]

I just told you I did earn them...

more apostolic???? hmmmm

[DAII]

I just told you I did earn them...

more apostolic???? hmmmm

Yes Art ... flat out more Apostolic ....

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT .....
:bliss

I earned that claim to fame :grampa

[Baron1710]

I just told you I did earn them...

more apostolic???? hmmmm

Earned or given?

Honorary is given. Diploma purchases are given. Earned is going to a school, either online or in person, that requires the completion of all of the credits necessary to graduate with the degree. Not a one paper assignment for a PhD.

[DAII]

Art, if you earned them ... please tell me who conferred you a bachelor's and master's degree?

What was the nature of your course load and course work ... concentrations .... etc. ? Right amount of credits completed to achieve.

Finished gets paid.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Earned or given?

Honorary is given. Diploma purchases are given. Earned is going to a school, either online or in person, that requires the completion of all of the credits necessary to graduate with the degree. Not a one paper assignment for a PhD.
:thumbsup

[D. Wright]

I don't know what is worse.

A minister that knows it's a degree mill Ph.D., but touts it as real.

Or, a minister that actually believes himself that it's a real Ph.D.

[DAII]

In education we use the words standards and rigor because they mean something. They have value.
Amazing how some in the "standards" crowd don't apply these more rigorously in other areas of their walk.

Earned or given?

Honorary is given. Diploma purchases are given. Earned is going to a school, either online or in person, that requires the completion of all of the credits necessary to graduate with the degree. Not a one paper assignment for a PhD.

[DAII]

I don't know what is worse.

A minister that knows it's a degree mill Ph.D., but touts it as real.

Or, a minister that actually believes himself that it's a real Ph.D.

This sums it up.

[DAII]

Again .... hands down ..... absolute memorable, classic thread.

[Jeffrey]

Looks like I missed the fun.

[DAII]

Looks like I missed the fun.

Oh you did, Geoffrey.
:bliss

[Emergent Man]

Oh you did, Geoffrey.
:bliss
Seems I missed it too. :razz

[Praxeas]

few answers:
Wilson was honored with these PhDs, He accepted them, Him and LS has a friend that was connected to those schools that recommended them for Honor.. there was nothing sinister about that, anyone can be given a life time achievment PhD, But they both did work and thesis submition with the schools.. Herff Jones created a "leadership in the movies" division for Detroit schools to help with the drop out rate... Wilson headed that department. Wilson is now an Ordained Min.
The accusations at ICW? well every organization has had failures, name one that hasn't, including church organizations, family, friends, and plenty of schools. however we still dont know the facts to the total outcome.
You guys should be ashamed of the gossip you are spreading..
Nobody is spreading gossip. We are spreading facts. BTW why are you referring to yourself in the third person?

[Timmy]

Looks like I missed the fun.

I have a feeling the fun is just starting. ;)

[Baron1710]

I have a feeling the fun is just starting. ;)

Timmy when are you going to start your studies at SEU?

Timmy if you will apply I am pretty sure you can get into Baron State. For a nominal fee and your experience on AFF I believe You would be eligable for a PhD in apologetics. That would look great on your signature then anytime someone complains about your view you can ask, "Do you have a PhD in apologetics?"

[Cindy]

I don't think this is fun at all. Just sad and pitiful.

[Praxeas]

Has Knight explained whether or not he is Arthur Wilson? If not how is he related to the man

[Baron1710]

Latest from SEU:

I have tried to find out more about Lee it appears he was a friend of a former member of SEU but I have not been able to find any record of him as an official student.

They seem to have short memories at diploma mills.

[notofworks]

Has Knight explained whether or not he is Arthur Wilson? If not how is he related to the man


DAII called him "Art" several times and he didn't deny it. So he either wants to appear he's AW or he actually is. The credentials of AW make him look as if he's a person who would actually say the stuff that Knight has been saying.

[Praxeas]

What about this approach Daniel..

Hey I noticed some things on your Bio that can be made more clear..

you would gain a friend in me.. but this stuff????
Ok, so it is your bio...

[DAII]

Because you have made various unfounded claims on this forum ...

1. being a British lawyer then later retracting
2. hosting the Prophetic Word conference
3. Honorary degrees granted on a lifetime of work by reputable institutions ...
4. Stating LS degrees were submitted to admin

quite frankly AW is no older than 40 and his resume is wanting in regards to lifetime achievement .... having no more than a high school diploma and a fairly nascent ministry.

no one made those claims, because you got confused. I cleared it up.. it was a copy of discussions that we being made.. I said I am not that lawyer.. stop playing games...

you have a problem with the appiontments because he is 42? thats your problem..

what do you mean hosting the PWC?

You made the claim on this thread:
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=30251&page=31

Here is your quote:




It is how the AW ... LS connection was made in the first place. Courtesy of Y-O-U.

Perhaps you should step up to the plate?

Step up to the plate?

I didnt deny that I hosted PWC... You said Hello Knight How Art You.. I said Hi... nothing to hide.... Im at the Plate.

Art, do you have any issues claiming to be a professor when most equate that to having the integrity, credibility and gravitas of an accredited degree beyond high school ... much less claimng a doctorate from a non-reputable post-graduate institution?

Where I'm from that's "false claiming".

I studied at Kent, TBC, MCC, and also ICW.. I have school credits galore they compiled them and honored them.... Just that simple... lots of unaccredited school out there.. you can slam them but thats your opinion..

For Praxeas.

Yes, he chose to out himself.

[DAII]

Latest from SEU:

I have tried to find out more about Lee it appears he was a friend of a former member of SEU but I have not been able to find any record of him as an official student.

They seem to have short memories at diploma mills.

No hall of records at 9 University .... behind the green door?

[Baron1710]

No hall of records at 9 University .... behind the green door?

Which makes it rough when applying for a job that requires things like official transcripts, top 1/3 of your class, or even a GPA above 3.0

It is hard to calculate a GPA based on a $4,000 check. I guess that translates to 4.o?

[notofworks]

For Praxeas.

Yes, he chose to out himself.



Wow, thanks for the recap. I guess I had scanned through and hadn't put all that together. I've never heard of him before but how could he have an ounce of credibility after all that? How embarrassing. He first appears as LS' British lawyer and then eventually spirals down the toilet bowl of dishonesty with all this stuff? Good grief. That's really sad. What a sad person.

[Maximilian]

Wow, thanks for the recap. I guess I had scanned through and hadn't put all that together. I've never heard of him before but how could he have an ounce of credibility after all that? How embarrassing. He first appears as LS' British lawyer and then eventually spirals down the toilet bowl of dishonesty with all this stuff? Good grief. That's really sad. What a sad person.

Are you obsessed with LS or something?

[Mirth1981]

:blink

WOW. Just wow.

This thread is unbelievable. :toofunny I know it's really not funny...it is majorly sad, but I can't help but laugh at the incredible irony of it all.

Lying on a forum is STILL lying...and claiming that you are a lawyer when you really aren't...that is a lie. Claiming you earned a Ph.D when you either bought it or it was given to you is also a lie. How many other lies are these people guilty of telling? It really brings their credibility into major question.

[notofworks]

Are you obsessed with LS or something?


Me?????? What the heck made you decide you to ask ME that???:lol

[notofworks]

:blink

WOW. Just wow.

This thread is unbelievable. :toofunny I know it's really not funny...it is majorly sad, but I can't help but laugh at the incredible irony of it all.

Lying on a forum is STILL lying...and claiming that you are a lawyer when you really aren't...that is a lie. Claiming you earned a Ph.D when you either bought it or it was given to you is also a lie. How many other lies are these people guilty of telling? It really brings their credibility into major question.


It's that simple, isn't it Mirth?

[DAII]

Knight,

I have verified the existence of Herff's motivational programs ....

among them Leadership in Movies.

http://recognitionsales.com/impactprograms.php?program=leadershipmovies

Obviously you are not with them or connected with them as a consultant .... anymore .... as your church is doing really well.

How does one become a consultant for this program? What are the qualifications? Is this through the Detroit public school system or through the company directly?

[Maximilian]

Me?????? What the heck made you decide you to ask ME that???:lol

Your last 500 posts on this thread. That's all.

[notofworks]

Your last 500 posts on this thread. That's all.

:ursofunnyYou read ALL of them? Sure. Whatever you say.:bliss

[Maximilian]

:ursofunnyYou read ALL of them? Sure. Whatever you say.:bliss

Sure didn't read them. I'd rather get kicked in the face.

[Charnock]

Unreal. To me, this deception has its root in pride.

It's frustrating that some of us are busting our butts trying to get a decent education the honorable way, while others are just lying their way to the top.

I wonder at the motivations behind all of this.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Unreal. To me, this deception has its root in pride.

It's frustrating that some of us are busting our butts trying to get a decent education the honorable way, while others are just lying their way to the top.



Completely agree.

[Maximilian]

Unreal. To me, this deception has its root in pride.

It's frustrating that some of us are busting our butts trying to get a decent education the honorable way, while others are just lying their way to the top.

I wonder at the motivations behind all of this.

I wonder what's going on in YOUR heart that you are so beside yourself?

[Timmy]

Sigh.

[Baron1710]

I wonder what's going on in YOUR heart that you are so beside yourself?

Do you have a defense for this nonsense that Lee Stoneking and his cohorts have pulled on the Pentecostal church or just snide comments for the folks that find his actions to be a real disgrace?

[Maximilian]

Do you have a defense for this nonsense that Lee Stoneking and his cohorts have pulled on the Pentecostal church or just snide comments for the folks that find his actions to be a real disgrace?

Just "snide" comments about the other "snide comments."

[Cindy]

I wonder what's going on in YOUR heart that you are so beside yourself?

Maybe because he is actually going to school to get a degree, instead of buying one and misrepresenting himself.

BTW, God HATES liars.

[Baron1710]

Just "snide" comments about the other "snide comments."
So you find it acceptable to lie about your education?

[notofworks]

Sure didn't read them. I'd rather get kicked in the face.

If you insist!:heeheehee

[Maximilian]

Maybe because he is actually going to school to get a degree, instead of buying one and misrepresenting himself.

BTW, God HATES liars.

Does it bother you that much? Do you have sin in YOUR heart?

[Maximilian]

If you insist!:heeheehee

hehehehe. Is that how you laugh in person?

[Maximilian]

AFF Watchdog Forum

So the guy puts PhD. That's not a lie. It's a PhD. Last I heard he wasn't parading himself as "Doctor Stoneking." It's stashed in a bio page of his website.

Why the obsession? Let it go.

[notofworks]

hehehehe. Is that how you laugh in person?


When you're talking, yeah!:heeheehee

[Maximilian]

When you're talking, yeah!:heeheehee

You're so cute.

[Baron1710]

AFF Watchdog Forum

So the guy puts PhD. That's not a lie. It's a PhD. Last I heard he wasn't parading himself as "Doctor Stoneking." It's stashed in a bio page of his website.

Why the obsession? Let it go.

HE didn't earn a PhD. He bought it. That's not a PhD it is a lie.

[Cindy]

Does it bother you that much? Do you have sin in YOUR heart?

Yes, it bothers me when people lie. I use to lie, I hate the fact that I use to lie.

[Maximilian]

HE didn't earn a PhD. He bought it. That's not a PhD it is a lie.

Big deal. Enough of a deal for grown men to devote hours of comments on this? Really? Let it go.

[DAII]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TDJIYPcwCEI/AAAAAAAAAk8/iiBxnF2O90I/artlee2.png

Being that Lee, the Prophet, is your spiritual father .... Knight ....

Did you turn LS to the PhD's at the Institute and SEU or did he bring you into it?

Does he call you doctor and professor?

[Maximilian]

Yes, it bothers me when people lie. I use to lie, I hate the fact that I use to lie.

If you used to lie, you can either be the Lie Police, or you can have a little mercy and understanding. Such were some of you.

Is the motivation for your hatred of another person's lying love or self-righteousness?

[Baron1710]

Big deal. Enough of a deal for grown men to devote hours of comments on this? Really? Let it go.

Yes it is a big deal.

[Maximilian]

Yes it is a big deal.

God is so proud of you. :thumbsup

[Baron1710]

God is so proud of you. :thumbsup
Oh, you speak for God now?

I bet He is proud of a traveling evangelist that lied about his education.

[Cindy]

If you used to lie, you can either be the Lie Police, or you can have a little mercy and understanding. Such were some of you.

Is the motivation for your hatred of another person's lying love or self-righteousness?

My love for God, and truth. I am thankful I am not what I once was. The only righteousness I have is through Jesus Christ. I try to be merciful, but I do not understand why a preacher would not make sure that his "credentials" were truthful. If his degree is honorary he should state the same.

Furthermore, information is so readily available with our technology I think a lot of people should be very careful of claims of education and other parts of their lives.

[Maximilian]

My love for God, and truth. I am thankful I am not what I once was. The only righteousness I have is through Jesus Christ. I try to be merciful, but I do not understand why a preacher would not make sure that his "credentials" were truthful. If his degree is honorary he should state the same.

Actually, citing yourself as a doctor is fine if it's honorary. It's usually police to add "h.c." though. But who cares. This guy isn't a scholar. It's never on his promotions. He doesn't even refer to himself as doctor.

[Maximilian]

Oh, you speak for God now?

I bet He is proud of a traveling evangelist that lied about his education.

Lied? Mighty high allegation. Aren't you just the accuser of the brethren.

Yes, you make God smile.

[Baron1710]

Lied? Mighty high allegation. Aren't you just the accuser of the brethren.

Yes, you make God smile.

I have displayed the facts. It is a lie to claim an unearned degree as if you earned it. And now there are two on the website. So did he earn it or was it honorary? Or do you know?

[Maximilian]

I have displayed the facts. It is a lie to claim an unearned degree as if you earned it. And now there are two on the website. So did he earn it or was it honorary? Or do you know?

Doesn't really matter to me. Curious why it matters so much to others.

[DAII]

Actually, citing yourself as a doctor is fine if it's honorary. It's usually police to add "h.c." though. But who cares. This guy isn't a scholar. It's never on his promotions. He doesn't even refer to himself as doctor.
The Truth doesn't really matter, Maxi. It's relative.

[Maximilian]

The Truth doesn't really matter, Maxi. It's relative.

Behold, The chief of obsessionists.

Glad God has appointed men like you the fine and high honor of calling everyone else out. Sin Exposers. That'd make a great reality show.

[rgcraig]

My love for God, and truth. I am thankful I am not what I once was. The only righteousness I have is through Jesus Christ. I try to be merciful, but I do not understand why a preacher would not make sure that his "credentials" were truthful. If his degree is honorary he should state the same.

Furthermore, information is so readily available with our technology I think a lot of people should be very careful of claims of education and other parts of their lives.

Yep! I think when some of these folks made their claim to education they had no idea that things could be "checked out" and proven or disproven.

[DAII]

Behold, The chief of obsessionists.

Glad God has appointed men like you the fine and high honor of calling everyone else out. Sin Exposers. That'd make a great reality show.
You'd wouldn't watch it like you are now - incessantly and faithfully- since you teach, preach and believe against having a TV.

We are heartened to see the Enseyites and Stonekingites are watching over at the masonic forums.

[Maximilian]

Yep! I think when some of these folks made their claim to education they had no idea that things could be "checked out" and proven or disproven.

Especially with all these Jesus Followers that make a hobby out of assassinating people's character, exposing their sin publicly, and making it their duty as Sheriff's in God's Kingdom to prosecute all they can.

If your concern was in love, then go to your brother in private. If he will not listen, ask a couple other brothers to go with you. Sounds like how this should be handled. Mt 18:15

Instead we have Christian Bounty Hunters.

[Maximilian]

You'd wouldn't watch it like you are now - incessantly and faithfully- since you teach, preach and believe against having a TV.

We are heartened to see the Enseyites and Stonekingites are watching over at the masonic forums.

Sorry, there's no animations to adequately illustrate what assuming does.

[rgcraig]

Especially with all these Jesus Followers that make a hobby out of assassinating people's character, exposing their sin publicly, and making it their duty as Sheriff's in God's Kingdom to prosecute all they can.

If your concern was in love, then go to your brother in private. If he will not listen, ask a couple other brothers to go with you. Sounds like how this should be handled. Mt 18:15

Instead we have Christian Bounty Hunters.

Maxy - - his claims aren't private.

[Maximilian]

Maxy - - his claims aren't private.

No one ever said the sins of Mt 18 must be private. The correction, since it's in love, should be private or among other elders.

[DAII]

Got a handle on you Maxi. You're a code yellow troll.

[Maximilian]

Got a handle on you Maxi. You're a code yellow troll.

Thanks Danny Boy.

Is that the military terms you Bounty Hunters use?

[rgcraig]

Got a handle on you Maxi. You're a code yellow troll.

Affirmative.

Apparently, just livening things up!

[Baron1710]

No one ever said the sins of Mt 18 must be private. The correction, since it's in love, should be private or among other elders.
You mean like when Paul confronted Peter ?

[Maximilian]

You mean like when Paul confronted Peter ?

Yes. He didn't send out the letters to all the churches to correct him. He confronted him to his face. They were brothers. We only learn of it after-the-fact.

[DAII]

You mean like when Paul confronted Peter ?

Code yellow troll. Stand down, Navy seal.

[notofworks]

Got a handle on you Maxi. You're a code yellow troll.


:lol

[Maximilian]

:lol

hehe

[Maximilian]

Code yellow troll. Stand down, Navy seal.

What's your rank in the militia? Chief? Captain? General?

Theme song: God's got an army, not afraid to fight... soldiers of the cross...

You guys rock.

[DAII]

What's your rank in the militia? Chief? Captain? General?

Theme song: God's got an army, not afraid to fight... soldiers of the cross...

You guys rock.

Just a lowly PSYOPS specialist.

Gen, Renders is in command.

[MissBrattified]

We teach our children that following instructions in little things like doing the dishes or taking out the trash prepares them to be trusted with big responsibilities later in life. Being dependable in small matters is directly related to being dependable in large matters. Whatever happened to the idea of being honest? Honesty isn't just encompassed by words that you speak--it's a lifestyle. You live transparently, honestly and openly before others.

Deception is NOT a part of the Christian's walk. Period.


Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

This IS a character issue. If a person can't be trusted to be honest regarding small matters, (assuming anyone considers this to be a small matter) they also can't be trusted to be honest on bigger issues. It's that cut and dried.

Luke 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

To insist that a small act of deception doesn't matter is ridiculous, particularly from a Christian standpoint.

[Maximilian]

We teach our children that following instructions in little things like doing the dishes or taking out the trash prepares them to be trusted with big responsibilities later in life. Being dependable in small matters is directly related to being dependable in large matters. Whatever happened to the idea of being honest? Honesty isn't just encompassed by words that you speak--it's a lifestyle. You live transparently, honestly and openly before others.

Deception is NOT a part of the Christian's walk. Period.


Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

This IS a character issue. If a person can't be trusted to be honest regarding small matters, (assuming anyone considers this to be a small matter) they also can't be trusted to be honest on bigger issues. It's that cut and dried.

Luke 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

To insist that a small act of deception doesn't matter is ridiculous, particularly from a Christian standpoint.

Doesn't matter or matters enough for your blood temperature to get out of whack? Which is it?

And what do you suppose the right way of addressing these issues is?

Any issues not submitted to the cross in your life? Any inconsistencies? :)

[MissBrattified]

Doesn't matter or matters enough for your blood temperature to get out of whack? Which is it?

And what do you suppose the right way of addressing these issues is?

Any issues not submitted to the cross in your life? Any inconsistencies? :)

Maxi,

My blood pressure is exceedingly stable. ;)

Of course there have been times in my life when I wasn't honest. Absolutely. To say otherwise would be, well, dishonest.

At present, I'm doing my level best to be a follower of Christ, and if I screw things up, I suppose I'll have to face my Maker and repent.

I learned from my Grandpa that the best way to handle a mistake was to make it right ASAP. You apologize to all concerned, tell God you're sorry if need be, and move on. He was known to apologize to folks even when he wasn't the one in the wrong--just to restore a friendship.

He also told me that "If you never lie, you don't have to remember what you said."

What do your questions for me have to do with a well-known minister possibly lying about his education to the general public?

Does dishonesty fall into line with the qualifications for a bishop, which state:

I Timothy 3:7 "...he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Titus 1:6-9 "...[he] must be blameless...."

Granted, I understand several of the qualifications in Timothy and Titus are routinely overlooked. :coffee2

[notofworks]

Doesn't matter or matters enough for your blood temperature to get out of whack? Which is it?

And what do you suppose the right way of addressing these issues is?

Any issues not submitted to the cross in your life? Any inconsistencies? :)


Max, did you drink too much coffee this morning?

[Jason B]

If you used to lie, you can either be the Lie Police, or you can have a little mercy and understanding. Such were some of you.
Is the motivation for your hatred of another person's lying love or self-righteousness?

Yeah, but NONE of us have been parading around the country preaching a recycled message of false doctrine at every attempt while making ourselves to be something we are not. The fact that the website changed 3 times in 2 days also speaks volumes, it doesn't seem like a simple mistake.

[pelathais]

You forgot that he mentioned LS's honorary degree which the institution that gave it to him has no record of... (Baron called and asked them). You need to correct him on that too ;)

You may be thinking of MT's "honorary degree" from Princeton Theological Seminary. Baron called Princeton about that. Also, the most recent claim for such a degree came from 1986, when MT was introduced by another speaker.

Presumably, that speaker was reading from a "bio card" that had been filled out previously.

Coincidentally, the same speaker introduced me to the same audience several years later. I was handed a card and asked to fill out a brief into about myself.

[pelathais]

Make this about you? not my intension,
not earned? not true already talked about my credits and schooling.
those statements about not earning a bach, or Masters not true either.. just posted the end result..
Herff Jones statements not true? I cleared that up..
Deceptive???? just a attack

So why the friend request?

I am confused here... and still catching up on this thread from this morning...

But Knight, didn't you say that both you and Lee Stoneking were awarded "honorary degrees" because of a "contact" you both had at the school?

You are now asserting that these honorary degrees were "earned." There's a difference between the two. Can you help out with this?

Did you pay a fee for your doctorate from the International Christian Works school that has been cited here?

[Praxeas]

Doesn't really matter to me. Curious why it matters so much to others.
Max,then why are you so defensive about it?

[pelathais]

I don't know what is worse.

A minister that knows it's a degree mill Ph.D., but touts it as real.

Or, a minister that actually believes himself that it's a real Ph.D.

This sums it up.

In education we use the words standards and rigor because they mean something. They have value.
Amazing how some in the "standards" crowd don't apply these more rigorously in other areas of their walk.

Excellent point D. Wright. And... the whole point here is NOT to just be "nit picking" on these guys and their claims. We have threads where IDEAS are argued and those IDEAS stand or fall based upon their merits.

What is going on here is a sort of "self regulation" within the Oneness community. When there are those of us who make claims to possessing academic credentials, then WE have to look at those claims.

Personally, I don't want to ever find myself talking to some acerbic "Trinitarian" headhunter on the radio and find that my arguments are simply dismissed because other "Oneness guys" ran around spouting off about their diploma mill degrees.

We MUST "police" our own academic community and credentials. If your only claim is that you sat in Robert Sabin's Sunday School class for twenty years - well, I'm impressed with THAT, even if you don't get any college credit for it.

But, let's be honest. We don't need these "credentials" that are under discussion here. They make everyone look bad.

[pelathais]

Latest from SEU:

I have tried to find out more about Lee it appears he was a friend of a former member of SEU but I have not been able to find any record of him as an official student.

They seem to have short memories at diploma mills.

If his check cleared then there's no reason to keep his paperwork, is there?

[pelathais]

Sure didn't read them. I'd rather get kicked in the face.

Sad, Max.

[pelathais]

AFF Watchdog Forum

So the guy puts PhD. That's not a lie. It's a PhD. Last I heard he wasn't parading himself as "Doctor Stoneking." It's stashed in a bio page of his website.

Why the obsession? Let it go.

Bro. Stoneking has made many public assertions over the years introducing a novel doctrine into our ranks. He will not discuss these claims in a public forum nor even answer questions about them. He has simply used his own force of personality to promote this new religious teaching.

Do we accept what he says, simply because he says it's so? Many people within our ranks have already done so.

By uncritically swallowing this whole "Holy Magic Hair" creed and its attendant stipulations, they make us all look like a silly cult of simpletons. I'm not happy with that. We have to stand up for truth, and such a stand must begin within our own ranks.

The "obsession" is Lee's. He needs to let this go.

[pelathais]

No one ever said the sins of Mt 18 must be private. The correction, since it's in love, should be private or among other elders.

If he "won't hear you" - then you are to tell it to the church.

Matthew 18:17

[Praxeas]

Maybe Knight or Dr Stoneking would be interesting in a public discussion on the hair doctrine LS has been teaching around the nation? Let's put those degrees to good use

[Jason B]

Maybe Knight or Dr Stoneking would be interesting in a public discussion on the hair doctrine LS has been teaching around the nation? Let's put those degrees to good use

Right, we do have a debate forum, maybe one of the Doctors would debate someone concerning the requirement of uncut hair. :ursofunny

Surely they can give us dumb folk an education.

[BeenThinkin]

Looks like I missed the fun.


Boy, me too! I've been thinking some of the threads were sure boring. Don't know how I missed this one. Am trying to catch up. Think I'm at about 34 - 35 post.

Wow!

BeenThinkin

[BeenThinkin]

Sorry, there's no animations to adequately illustrate what assuming does.


You might be a good example of this animation? Reckon? Mr. Maximilian just wants everyone to overlook and sweep under the rug and don't be questioning these good men!

Paul said in essence, to follow him as he followed Christ. But, according to you we can't check on these men and see if they are following Christ and if we find them doing otherwise we can't question them! Just be quiet! Don't muddy the water.

If these men want to falsify their education records they ought to get into politics instead of the ministry.

Oh, of course, they can put politicians out of office for falsifying their records but we can't question the preacher about it!

Give me a break!

Been Thinkin

[mental]

Here is an interesting article today in light of this thread.

"They would print the diplomas and the so-called coursework they had people doing," says the detective, who confiscated fake diplomas from the downtown church building. "But then when they were done, basically all they had was a worthless piece of paper."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38096123/ns/us_news-faith/

[Maximilian]

Max,then why are you so defensive about it?

Defensive?

[Maximilian]

If he "won't hear you" - then you are to tell it to the church.

Matthew 18:17

And which of you have went to him in private, or with other brothers first? :)

[Maximilian]

Have I told you all lately that I love you? :)

[Praxeas]

Have I told you all lately that I love you? :)
No Rod Stewart, but thanks for the thought:toofunny

[DAII]

The following is from the 2010 Catalogue of One Flesh Ministries Bible Institute

Source: www.ofmbi.com/files/OFMBI_CATALOGUE-ICW2.doc (www.ofmbi.com/files/OFMBI_CATALOGUE-ICW2.doc)

It is affiliated and a satellite of the INSTITUTE FOR CHRISTIAN WORKS BIBLE COLLEGE & SEMINARY

founded by Dr. P. Bradley Carey, (alleged child rapist)

Dr. Arthur C. Wilson, Pastor of the International Church of Wayne (UPCI), is listed once again as a staff member at this educational institution, as follows:

Pastor ARTHUR C. WILSON
United Pentecostal Church
B.Min., M.Min., D.Min.
Professor of Ministry


The bachelor's and master's being degrees Arthur has not earned at any other school before attaining his doctorate from this same institution.

This, subsequently, is also the same school in which Lee Stoneking, Wilson's "spiritual father", claims to have a doctorate from ....


Admittedly, by Mr. Wilson on this thread, these degrees, along with the degrees from SEU, have been conferred on a honorary basis for lifetime achievement and accumulation of credits throughout a sporadic and itinerant academic career.

According to the INSTITUTE FOR CHRISTIAN WORKS BIBLE COLLEGE & SEMINARY endorsed literature .... a doctoral degree is described as follows:


DOCTOR OF CHRISTIAN PHILOSOPHY AND
DOCTOR OF RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY DEGREE PROGRAMS

APOLOGETICS, BIBLICAL STUDIES, CHRISTIAN COUNSELING, CHRISTIAN EDUCATION, CHURCH ADMINISTRATION, MINISTRY, PASTORAL COUNSELING, RELIGION, RELIGIOUS LITERATURE, SACRED MUSIC, THEOLOGY

The required amount of credits for a Doctor of Christian Philosophy and the Doctor of Religious Philosophy degree is 115 credits. All credits earned above the Master’s degree level must be in the degree major. All credits are inclusive of credits from the Master’s degree. All Doctor of Christian Philosophy and Doctor of Religious Philosophy degree candidates are required to do a Doctoral Dissertation. All those majoring in Christian/Pastoral Counseling must do a 200 hour Counseling Practicum worth 20 credits of those required for this degree.

South Carolina State law prohibits religious schools from using what they term as “secular nomenclature.” Hence, our Doctor of Christian Philosophy degree has the nomenclature of D.C.Phil., instead of Ph.D. and our Doctor of Religious Philosophy degree has the nomenclature of D.R.Phil., instead of Ph.D. Other than the initials and this being a religious degree, there is no real difference.


If I am reading the South Carolina school's own description correctly .... their degree by state law does not, and can not read, PhD but rather D.R.Phil.

Lee Stoneking's site has not posted the designation PhD next the doctorate from the Institute ...

however ... Doctor Wilson claims a PhD from the the Institute at his church site and personal ministry site, (http://www.theinternationalchurch.org/staff.php?staffID=14006&, http://www.artwilson.com/)


albeit, Wilson now claims that his PhDs are honorary in this thread ....

.... yet NO SUCH DESIGNATION OF A PHD EVEN EXISTS AT THIS SCHOOL and IS ILLEGAL NOMENCLATURE in the state in which the school is based in.

Despite this, Dr. Wilson believes he should be able to claim and publicize a PhD from the school where he is an adjunct professor in and in charge of "proctoring and invigilation".

Also be sure to read Dr. Bradley's take on the "lie of accreditation" in this catalog.

[Jason B]

The following is from the 2010 Catalogue of One Flesh Ministries Bible Institute

Source: www.ofmbi.com/files/OFMBI_CATALOGUE-ICW2.doc (www.ofmbi.com/files/OFMBI_CATALOGUE-ICW2.doc)

It is affiliated and a satellite of the INSTITUTE FOR CHRISTIAN WORKS BIBLE COLLEGE & SEMINARY

founded by Dr. P. Bradley Carey, (alleged child rapist)

Dr. Arthur C. Wilson, Pastor of the International Church of Wayne (UPCI), is listed once again as a staff member at this educational institution, as follows:

Pastor ARTHUR C. WILSON
United Pentecostal Church
B.Min., M.Min., D.Min.
Professor of Ministry


The bachelor's and master's being degrees Arthur has not earned at any other school before attaining his doctorate from this same institution.

This, subsequently, is also the same school in which Lee Stoneking, Wilson's "spiritual father", claims to have a doctorate from ....


Admittedly, by Mr. Wilson on this thread, these degrees, along with the degrees from SEU, have been conferred on a honorary basis for lifetime achievement and accumulation of credits throughout a sporadic and itinerant academic career.

According to the INSTITUTE FOR CHRISTIAN WORKS BIBLE COLLEGE & SEMINARY endorsed literature .... a doctoral degree is described as follows:




If I am reading the South Carolina school's own description correctly .... their degree by state law does not, and can not read, PhD but rather D.R.Phil.

Lee Stoneking's site has not posted the designation PhD next the doctorate from the Institute ...

however ... Doctor Wilson claims a PhD from the the Institute at his church site and personal ministry site, (http://www.theinternationalchurch.org/staff.php?staffID=14006&, http://www.artwilson.com/)


albeit, Wilson now claims that his PhDs are honorary in this thread ....

.... yet NO SUCH DESIGNATION OF A PHD EVEN EXISTS AT THIS SCHOOL and IS ILLEGAL NOMENCLATURE in the state in which the school is based in.

Despite this, Dr. Wilson believes he should be able to claim and publicize a PhD from the school where he is an adjunct professor in and in charge of "proctoring and invigilation".

Also be sure to read Dr. Bradley's take on the "lie of accreditation" in this catalog.

This is like a soap opera, weird, and it keeps getting weirder.