SEU (Southern Eastern University) updates

[Baron1710]

In checking in with SEU, about getting a PhD so far the response time has been very slow on the part of Dr John Johnson, academic director SEU.

What I have learned is that:

Mr. Johnson was quick to inform me
"SEU is an American University and as such is not able to award UK qualifications."

Also they cannot admit students from Arkansas, odd considering that is where their "campus" is located.

And the best part so far is their email address you would expect something like jjohnson@SEU.edu. Right?

Oh no they are upscale the email address of the "academic director" is OwlsJKJ@aol.com

I will keep all of you updated in my pursuit of PhD.

Special thanks to Lee Stoneking who turned me on to his alma mater.

[notofworks]

In checking in with SEU, about getting a PhD so far the response time has been very slow on the part of Dr John Johnson, academic director SEU.

What I have learned is that:

Mr. Johnson was quick to inform me
"SEU is an American University and as such is not able to award UK qualifications."

Also they cannot admit students from Arkansas, odd considering that is where their "campus" is located.

And the best part so far is their email address you would expect something like jjohnson@SEU.edu. Right?

Oh no they are upscale the email address of the "academic director" is OwlsJKJ@aol.com

I will keep all of you updated in my pursuit of PhD.

Special thanks to Lee Stoneking who turned me on to his alma mater.

:ursofunny
You are relentless.

[pelathais]

:ursofunny
You are relentless.

Well, when someone makes a special plea or provides a CV with academic credentials, that person is making an argument themselves - and "argument from authority" - they are making a claim that they are an "authority" to some degree on the matter under discussion based upon the degrees and other awards that they hold.

So far, the men whose arguments are under discussion lately have come up short when it comes to the degrees they have touted.

There are many others who have been discussed recently - Talmadge French, DKB and many others. These guys with authentic degrees, however, don't seem to make the sorts of outrageous claims that others with "exaggerated" degree credentials have made.

One exception - in my own observation - has been Arlo M. He does hold a valid and earned doctorate in chemical engineering from an accredited university. He has however made the most outlandish and unreasonable claims with regard to the creation/evolution debate. He peddles claims that most of the Young Earth crowd abandoned decades ago.

All of the rest of the guys making outrageous claims all have exaggerated their credentials.

[Baron1710]

Hey Timmy, have you received any more emails from them?

[Baron1710]

"Those who are awarded a Doctorate may, at the discretion of the University, be appointed Fellows of the University and Members of their Faculty."

http://www.southerneasternuniversity.co.uk/distance_learning1degree-uk.html

So this is how Dr. Stoneking lists himself as faculty...

When does deliberatly misleading become a lie?

[Baron1710]

Now why is it that they only peddle their merchandise in America even thought they are located in the UK?

Because it is a violation of UK law for them to sell their bogus diplomas.

The Education Reform Act 1988.
214. Unrecognised degrees. — (1) Any person who, in the course of business, grants, offers to grant or issues any invitation relating to any award—
(a)
which may reasonably be taken to be an award granted or to be granted by a United Kingdom institution; and
(b)
which either—
(i) is described as a degree; or
(ii) purports to confer on its holder the right to the title of bachelor, master or doctor and may reasonably be taken to be a degree;
shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

[Baron1710]

"All degrees are awarded by Southern Eastern University (USA). SEU does not have a located campus either residential or non-residential. Its campus is a world-wide e-campus with Administrative Offices."

http://www.southerneasternuniversity.co.uk/southern1eastern_university-uk.html

[Timmy]

Hey Timmy, have you received any more emails from them?

Not yet. But it's been just a day since my last reply to them.

[Jeffrey]

Well, when someone makes a special plea or provides a CV with academic credentials, that person is making an argument themselves - and "argument from authority" - they are making a claim that they are an "authority" to some degree on the matter under discussion based upon the degrees and other awards that they hold.

So far, the men whose arguments are under discussion lately have come up short when it comes to the degrees they have touted.

There are many others who have been discussed recently - Talmadge French, DKB and many others. These guys with authentic degrees, however, don't seem to make the sorts of outrageous claims that others with "exaggerated" degree credentials have made.

One exception - in my own observation - has been Arlo M. He does hold a valid and earned doctorate in chemical engineering from an accredited university. He has however made the most outlandish and unreasonable claims with regard to the creation/evolution debate. He peddles claims that most of the Young Earth crowd abandoned decades ago.

All of the rest of the guys making outrageous claims all have exaggerated their credentials.

ABsolutely right.

Even better, those that have Doctorates or some credential from SOME school, most often are not specific or concentrated in Christian Theology, Exegetical Teaching, Divinity, etc... It's usually either in the broad field of "religion" or "education," etc

PhD in chem engineering? Not sure the scope of this degree or how his degree makes his an expert in the matter. However, any educated man can surely have an opinion about Young Earth, New Earth Creationism, etc.

[Jeffrey]

"All degrees are awarded by Southern Eastern University (USA). SEU does not have a located campus either residential or non-residential. Its campus is a world-wide e-campus with Administrative Offices."

http://www.southerneasternuniversity.co.uk/southern1eastern_university-uk.html

I know an "Apostolic Bible College" like this :)

[Jeffrey]

So the question is: Why would Lee Stoneking go through the trouble of obtaining a Ph.D from this joke of a university?

[Timmy]

ABsolutely right.

Even better, those that have Doctorates or some credential from SOME school, most often are not specific or concentrated in Christian Theology, Exegetical Teaching, Divinity, etc... It's usually either in the broad field of "religion" or "education," etc

PhD in chem engineering? Not sure the scope of this degree or how his degree makes his an expert in the matter. However, any educated man can surely have an opinion about Young Earth, New Earth Creationism, etc.

I looked at the faculty of ABI (LS's undergrad school) the other day. Most had Bachelor's degrees from ABI itself, and in some cases from other institutions as well. I think there were two doctorates: one in entomology and one in chemical engineering. Oh, whattya know: it would appear to be the same doc that Pel mentioned. Dr. Arlo Moehlenpah. He has a BS and an MS in chem eng., as well as a Th.B. in Apostolic Studies from ABI.

Anyway. Just sayin'.

(Edit: corrected the initials above. Although, the original typo (SE) may have been correct, too. Dunno. ;))

[Jeffrey]

I looked at the faculty of ABI (SE's undergrad school) the other day. Most had Bachelor's degrees from ABI itself, and in some cases from other institutions as well. I think there were two doctorates: one in entomology and one in chemical engineering. Oh, whattya know: it would appear to be the same doc that Pel mentioned. Dr. Arlo Moehlenpah. He has a BS and an BS in chem eng., as well as a Th.B. in Apostolic Studies from ABI.

Anyway. Just sayin'.

:ursofunny

[Baron1710]

The latest email and my response. why do I feel like I am talking to someone in Nigeria?

The cost SEU charges for a masters is £3500 for 2010-2011. The requirement is either one piece of research of between 30-35000 words or 2 pieces on a related topic of between 15-18000 words each and a short essay (500-800 words) explaining the link between the two pieces. The time limits for submission are not less than 12 months and not more than 18 months from the date of registration.

I have spoken to one of the theology markers who is happy to guide you through a masters. The guidance is in essence provided to assist in the identification of research topics then comments on the progress reports sent in by the student and a provisional response to the work a month before final submission.

If you are still interested in joining the programme please send you address and I will have the enrolment forms sent to you.

kind regards
Dr John Johnson

My response:

Can you email me the forms?

Is it possible for me to have Lee Stoneking as my faculty contact?


This is too much fun.

[Timmy]

The latest email and my response. why do I feel like I am talking to someone in Nigeria?

The cost SEU charges for a masters is £3500 for 2010-2011. The requirement is either one piece of research of between 30-35000 words or 2 pieces on a related topic of between 15-18000 words each and a short essay (500-800 words) explaining the link between the two pieces. The time limits for submission are not less than 12 months and not more than 18 months from the date of registration.

I have spoken to one of the theology markers who is happy to guide you through a masters. The guidance is in essence provided to assist in the identification of research topics then comments on the progress reports sent in by the student and a provisional response to the work a month before final submission.

If you are still interested in joining the programme please send you address and I will have the enrolment forms sent to you.

kind regards
Dr John Johnson

My response:

Can you email me the forms?

Is it possible for me to have Lee Stoneking as my faculty contact?


This is too much fun.

:spit

[Baron1710]

Wait wait it gets better...Here is the latest response.

I will e-mail the forms to you later this weekend.

Who is Lee Stoneking? If you wish him to work with you that may not be a problem but an SEU approved marker will have to assess your work.

[Timmy]

Wait wait it gets better...Here is the latest response.

I will e-mail the forms to you later this weekend.

Who is Lee Stoneking? If you wish him to work with you that may not be a problem but an SEU approved marker will have to assess your work.

Never heard of that adjunct prof, eh? Wow!

[Baron1710]

Never heard of that adjunct prof, eh? Wow!

I am crackin' up here. My daughter is saying, "Dad, chill out nothing is that funny."

[Timmy]

I am crackin' up here. My daughter is saying, "Dad, chill out nothing is that funny."

ROFL!

[Baron1710]

So now I finally get the registration information...


SOUTHERN EASTERN (SEU)


DEGREE PROGRAMME

FEE SPREADING AGREEMENT

For students wishing to spread the cost of the course over a one year period, the full course fees are payable as follows:-

Certificates £175.00

Bachelors Degree: £2900.00
General Masters Degree: £3500.00

MBA (Distance Learning) £3700.00

Doctorate Degree PhD or other: £4500.00

No interest is charged and the course fees may be spread over a one year period as follows:-

(a) £175: A payment upon registration of £55 followed by three monthly payments of £40 each

(b) £2900 : A payment upon Registration of £950 followed by fifteen monthly payments of £130 each.

(c) £3500 : A payment upon Registration of £950 followed by fifteen monthly payments of
£170 each.

(d) £3700 : A payment upon Registration of £1150 followed by fifteen monthly payments of £170 each.

(e) £4500: A Payment on Registration of £1500 followed by fifteen monthly payments of £200 each.

 Students can pay a higher initial payment if they so wish and the balance being payable by the appropriate equal monthly payments.

 Payments must be made by Cheque, payments will be payable on the 1st day of each month unless the students specifically requests some other date in the month. All payments are to be made to ‘SEU’

 Acceptance of the Registration of the Students constitutes a contract with the University

 Any course fees paid are non-refundable on acceptance of the Student’s Registration

It must be fully understood that the following terms are also part of this contract:

1. If any instalment is not paid within ten days of the date upon which it falls due, a late payment fee of £10 is payable and will be added to the Student’s account. This is to defray the cost of chasing up late payments.

2. If any payment is not made within one calendar month of the date upon which it falls due this Agreement may be cancelled, whereupon the total balance of fees outstanding as at that date, together with all late payment fees that may have accrued, will immediately become due and owing.

3. Whereas the Association will provide help and guidance to the student, it is the responsibility of Students to manage their own study and research. Once the Registration has been accepted the total course fees are payable in accordance with the provisions of this Agreement even though the Student, for whatever reason, may not complete the programme.

If a Student faces financial hardship to the extent of being unable to pay any instalment, the Association must be notified before the instalment falls due and every consideration will be given to temporarily restructure payments.

Please complete the following:

First Names. Mr / Mrs / Miss / Ms./Dr

Family Name.

Address.



Post Code.

I am enclosing with this Agreement the duly completed Registration Forms for access onto the Degree Programme.

(a) I enclose herewith a remittance for the minimum initial payment and will make monthly payments as shown above
£. or
(b) I wish to pay an initial payment higher than the minimum shown above and equal monthly payments for the balance, accordingly I enclose a remittance for £. or

(c) I wish to pay the course fees in full as shown above £.

Please tick the appropriate Box.



I agree to the terms set out in this Agreement.



Date:


Signed



If you are sending this form by post then you must sign it above.

If you are returning this form by e-mail, please type in your name above where it states ‘Signed:’ This typing of your name will signify that you agree to the terms set out in this agreement..


If you are paying by cheque this form must be sent by post, accompanied by the cheque (made payable to ‘SEU’ to:

Programme Director,
Southern Eastern (SEU)
PO Box 108,
Manchester
M11 0AQ
ENGLAND



OwlsJKJ@aol.com


Also from the form where you list the classes you have taken...thats right no request for transcripts...just an agreement to pay them.


6. Registration: I hereby apply for entry onto the Degree Programme and understand that the acceptance of this Registration constitutes a binding contract and that fees paid are non refundable under any circumstances. I also confirm that the information in this Form is correct.

7. I understand that all awards and degrees are granted by SEU which is not a UK institution and therefore the awards and degrees are not UK granted. Such awards and degrees will not be granted until the requirements for the granting of the award or degree have been complied with and all fees paid to SEU.

[notofworks]

Well, when someone makes a special plea or provides a CV with academic credentials, that person is making an argument themselves - and "argument from authority" - they are making a claim that they are an "authority" to some degree on the matter under discussion based upon the degrees and other awards that they hold.

So far, the men whose arguments are under discussion lately have come up short when it comes to the degrees they have touted.

There are many others who have been discussed recently - Talmadge French, DKB and many others. These guys with authentic degrees, however, don't seem to make the sorts of outrageous claims that others with "exaggerated" degree credentials have made.

One exception - in my own observation - has been Arlo M. He does hold a valid and earned doctorate in chemical engineering from an accredited university. He has however made the most outlandish and unreasonable claims with regard to the creation/evolution debate. He peddles claims that most of the Young Earth crowd abandoned decades ago.

All of the rest of the guys making outrageous claims all have exaggerated their credentials.


There should be a special warning when one signs up for AFF:

"Do not.....we repeat, DO NOT, make any claims that you cannot absolutely and completely validate. If you do, Baron will hunt you and that claim down the the flippin' end of the earth and nail you to the wall."

That should be in the AFF intro.

[Baron1710]

Now why would I agree to send them thousands of dollars and then what? I guess they forget about who you are even if you are adjunct faculty, who is Lee Stoneking. And if they are located in Arkansas and can't issue their diploma's in UK why do I need to mail my check to the UK?

Lee Stoneking should be ashamed of himself for trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes and should never be trusted since he was willing to send thousands of dollars to these people for them to mail him a PhD.

What a fraud.

[notofworks]

So the question is: Why would Lee Stoneking go through the trouble of obtaining a Ph.D from this joke of a university?


Because 99.8 percent of his gullible audience is gullible, otherwise they wouldn't be listening to his pile of manure doctrine anyway. His audience is going to look at his degree and go, "WOW, not only is he sitting on the right hand of God, but he's educated. This gives even more credibility to his hair claims."

Is this a good time to tell you all that I have a Dr. of Psychology degree from NorthSouthern University?

[Timmy]

Now why would I agree to send them thousands of dollars and then what? I guess they forget about who you are even if you are adjunct faculty, who is Lee Stoneking. And if they are located in Arkansas and can't issue their diploma's in UK why do I need to mail my check to the UK?

Lee Stoneking should be ashamed of himself for trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes and should never be trusted since he was willing to send thousands of dollars to these people for them to mail him a PhD.

What a fraud.

So, think we can trust the rest of his bio? Is he really "Caucasian--English/German"? :hmmm

[notofworks]

I looked at the faculty of ABI (LS's undergrad school) the other day. Most had Bachelor's degrees from ABI itself, and in some cases from other institutions as well. I think there were two doctorates: one in entomology and one in chemical engineering. Oh, whattya know: it would appear to be the same doc that Pel mentioned. Dr. Arlo Moehlenpah. He has a BS and an MS in chem eng., as well as a Th.B. in Apostolic Studies from ABI.

Anyway. Just sayin'.

(Edit: corrected the initials above. Although, the original typo (SE) may have been correct, too. Dunno. ;))



Wait.....Arlo Moehlenpah is at ABI? Is his doctorate legit? I always thought it was. But then again, I didn't do a Baron on him.

[notofworks]

The latest email and my response. why do I feel like I am talking to someone in Nigeria?

The cost SEU charges for a masters is £3500 for 2010-2011. The requirement is either one piece of research of between 30-35000 words or 2 pieces on a related topic of between 15-18000 words each and a short essay (500-800 words) explaining the link between the two pieces. The time limits for submission are not less than 12 months and not more than 18 months from the date of registration.

I have spoken to one of the theology markers who is happy to guide you through a masters. The guidance is in essence provided to assist in the identification of research topics then comments on the progress reports sent in by the student and a provisional response to the work a month before final submission.

If you are still interested in joining the programme please send you address and I will have the enrolment forms sent to you.

kind regards
Dr John Johnson

My response:

Can you email me the forms?

Is it possible for me to have Lee Stoneking as my faculty contact?


This is too much fun.



:ursofunny:ursofunny(The Stoneking part)

[Jeffrey]

We still don't even know what the Ph.D is in.

[notofworks]

We still don't even know what the Ph.D is in.



Oh Jeffrey......I have the answer, but I cannot say it here!!!!! Ooooooohhhh, I want to SO badly.:lol

[Jeffrey]

Oh Jeffrey......I have the answer, but I cannot say it here!!!!! Ooooooohhhh, I want to SO badly.:lol

Let me guess, it's related to a Bachelor of Science? :ursofunny

[Baron1710]

We still don't even know what the Ph.D is in.

Piled higher and deeper. The dung that is.

[notofworks]

Let me guess, it's related to a Bachelor of Science? :ursofunny


Fell off my chair. Yep!!!:ursofunny:ursofunny

[Timmy]

Fell off my chair. Yep!!!:ursofunny:ursofunny

That reminds me. Did you see my posts in your IHOP thread?

[Jeffrey]

Was it necessary for him to list his marital status on a ministerial bio?

And how did he go from a BA at ABI to a PHD? No middle education there?

"Speaks some Hebrew" I know the alphabet. Does that count too? How much is "some?" Worthy to even put on a website? More misrepresentation?

Studied French for 1 1/2 years? Cool. A little Rosetta Stone action... those are cool.

I wonder if TW Barnes would still endorse LS? Or even James Kilgore for that matter.

[rgcraig]

Wait.....Arlo Moehlenpah is at ABI? Is his doctorate legit? I always thought it was. But then again, I didn't do a Baron on him.

Need to add this to our AFF Lexicons

[Jeffrey]

Need to add this to our AFF Lexicons

Seriously!

[notofworks]

That reminds me. Did you see my posts in your IHOP thread?


No, I didn't. I forgot about that thread.

[Timmy]

No, I didn't. I forgot about that thread.

Didn't think so. No falling out of chairs mentioned. :heeheehee

[Baron1710]

Wait.....Arlo Moehlenpah is at ABI? Is his doctorate legit? I always thought it was. But then again, I didn't do a Baron on him.

I am going to go out on a limb here and declare Arlo's are legit. You will notice he lists real schools, real degrees, and what year he graduated all easily verifiable if necessary. He gets a pass today, for that part. But ask yourself why he would be the guy you hire to teach theology? Seriously, does his education make him a candidate for teaching the book of Acts?

[notofworks]

I am going to go out on a limb here and declare Arlo's are legit. You will notice he lists real schools, real degrees, and what year he graduated all easily verifiable if necessary. He gets a pass today, for that part. But ask yourself why he would be the guy you hire to teach theology? Seriously, does his education make him a candidate for teaching the book of Acts?


No, it doesn't really. But he sure always seemed legit to me. He was absent-minded enough to qualify! And the way he scrunched up his nose to get his glasses up to he could see through them....classic. And for sure, when topics got to science, he sure sounded like he knew what he was talking about.

[notofworks]

Didn't think so. No falling out of chairs mentioned. :heeheehee



:ursofunny
International House of Bible Studies!!!! There goes the chair!!!

[Baron1710]

No, it doesn't really. But he sure always seemed legit to me. He was absent-minded enough to qualify! And the way he scrunched up his nose to get his glasses up to he could see through them....classic. And for sure, when topics got to science, he sure sounded like he knew what he was talking about.

No doubt about it Science and math, not the most exciting teacher but he knew that stuff. He didn't so much scrunch his nose to push the glasses up like some people do he would just stay that way with his face contorted to hold them up...that is way funny.

[Timmy]

:ursofunny
International House of Bible Studies!!!! There goes the chair!!!

:D

[JN Anderson]

You guys are way too bored.

[Jeffrey]

You guys are way too bored.

We were bored. Now we're just having a good time :)

Besides, beneath the humor, to me this is a serious issue. Makes people's character vulnerable.

[Baron1710]

You guys are way too bored.

Bored? Intelligent people are never bored.

Doesn't it bother you that Stoneking was willing to pay for a bogus degree or that he puts himself out there as a PhD and an adjunct and when the "school" hears his name they say who is that? I am not sure who is the bigger fraud.

[DAII]

I am sure this can be easily explained away by the Holy hair sychophants and Stoneking supporters.

Truth be told this is a well-intentioned man who has had results and that is all that matters.

The fraud being perpetrated on Pentecost is amazing ... The analogies to William Branham are fair.

[Hoovie]

Good work Baron.

Questions I have:

Is any institution that awards a degree considering one's life experience and work then considered a diploma mill?

I have heard more than one person express (certainly not hide) the fact that they received a diploma by an institution who considered their life's work, writing and other scholarly activity, along with their assigned academic achievements.

Is an institution that is not brick and mortar by definition "a fraud"?

Since many denominations have colleges that do not meet the standards of accreditation are they also in this same "fraudulent" category?

Sorry guys as a former Horse and Buggy Mennonite.... my only Phd is in unaccredited animal husbandry - and I know that don't impress you much! :)

[Baron1710]

Good work Baron.

Questions I have:

Is any institution that awards a degree considering one's life experience and work then considered a diploma mill?

I have heard more than one person express (certainly not hide) the fact that they received a diploma by an institution who considered their life's work, writing and other scholarly activity, along with their assigned academic achievements.

Is an institution that is not brick and mortar by definition "a fraud"?

Since many denominations have colleges that do not meet the standards of accreditation are they also in this same "fraudulent" category?

Sorry guys as a former Horse and Buggy Mennonite.... my only Phd is in unaccredited animal husbandry - and I know that don't impress you much! :)

It my view there are two categories, unaccredited and diploma mills. Unaccredited schools may have standards that are just as high as the school across town that is. Because there is no oversight you never know what you are going to get and often you can't move on to the next level with the unaccredited degree.

It may be one thing to give a limited amount of credit based on what one knows, but what's the point of paying someone to give you a paper that isn't worth anything and calling it a degree.

I admit I have completely misled the diploma mill in fact my last email is pushing them to sell me the PhD first for the price of the masters and PhD. That is all they are interested in. writing a paper, no matter how long isn't the same as a masters requires input from others who have already mastered the subject, required reading, and all the work involved to get through these classes.

[Baron1710]

Sorry guys as a former Horse and Buggy Mennonite.... my only Phd is in unaccredited animal husbandry - and I know that don't impress you much! :)

I'm impressed. I am sure you know a ton about animals and treating them, taking care of them, etc. But would you feel comfortable opening a shop and calling yourself a vet? If not would you want them to award you a degree based on your life experience? I could see them saying hey this guy could pass this class without taking it, giving you a test and letting you slide on that part but requiring you to do the rest.

[Hoovie]

I'm impressed. I am sure you know a ton about animals and treating them, taking care of them, etc. But would you feel comfortable opening a shop and calling yourself a vet? If not would you want them to award you a degree based on your life experience? I could see them saying hey this guy could pass this class without taking it, giving you a test and letting you slide on that part but requiring you to do the rest.

Good point Baron!

[Timmy]

I'm impressed. I am sure you know a ton about animals and treating them, taking care of them, etc. But would you feel comfortable opening a shop and calling yourself a vet? If not would you want them to award you a degree based on your life experience? I could see them saying hey this guy could pass this class without taking it, giving you a test and letting you slide on that part but requiring you to do the rest.

I'm a pretty good pot-stirrer. Maybe I could get a culinary arts degree! :lol

[coadie]

Well, when someone makes a special plea or provides a CV with academic credentials, that person is making an argument themselves - and "argument from authority" - they are making a claim that they are an "authority" to some degree on the matter under discussion based upon the degrees and other awards that they hold.

So far, the men whose arguments are under discussion lately have come up short when it comes to the degrees they have touted.

There are many others who have been discussed recently - Talmadge French, DKB and many others. These guys with authentic degrees, however, don't seem to make the sorts of outrageous claims that others with "exaggerated" degree credentials have made.

One exception - in my own observation - has been Arlo M. He does hold a valid and earned doctorate in chemical engineering from an accredited university. He has however made the most outlandish and unreasonable claims with regard to the creation/evolution debate. He peddles claims that most of the Young Earth crowd abandoned decades ago.

All of the rest of the guys making outrageous claims all have exaggerated their credentials.

He therefore enrolled Charles Darwin at Christ's College, Cambridge in 1827 for a Bachelor of Arts degree as the qualification required before taking a specialised divinity course

Darwin's cv from wiki.

So the heavy duty degree in divinity makes him a better preacher than any of these Pentecostals.:grampa
He also is not a scientist.
Charles Darwin lied in the Voyage of the HMS Beagle writings. He was Not the ships naturalist. You have to be A medical doctor to be the naturalist. He was a medical student dropout.

Darwin was not a scientist. He was a fiction writer. Story teller.

Alberto Gore is puffing himself up as a scientist also.

[DAII]

Baron you are a mocker and a scoffer! A tadpole yelling at a butterfly!

How many revivals have you preached? How have been healed under your ministry? Have you been resurrected from the dead? Have you traveled worldwide with the Message?

I am tired and so done with the Beattitudes, I am just going to grab a bull whip and whoop your arse!

More Ananias and Saphira cow bell, please.

[Baron1710]

I'm a pretty good pot-stirrer. Maybe I could get a culinary arts degree! :lol

For a mere $2500 I will be happy to send you a diploma declaring you a Master Chef. Just send me your credit card info and I will process that first thing next week.

[Baron1710]

Baron you are a mocker and a scoffer! A tadpole yelling at a butterfly!

How many revivals have you preached? How have been healed under your ministry? Have you been resurrected from the dead? Have you traveled worldwide with the Message?

I am tired and so done with the Beattitudes, I am just going to grab a bull whip and whoop your arse!

More Ananias and Saphira cow bell, please.

You are right on Dan. Tadpoles like me shouldn't be yelling at that butterfly (is that a reference to the way he prances across the stage?). I should just ignore all the lies that have been told in the name of Jesus.

I think your response is the only defense they can mount, and I also think your comparison to Branham is dead on, and a bit scary.

[DAII]

Someone please be sure to " screen capture" LS bio page before it disappears

[DAII]

You are right on Dan. Tadpoles like me shouldn't be yelling at that butterfly (is that a reference to the way he prances across the stage?). I should just ignore all the lies that have been told in the name of Jesus.

I think your response is the only defense they can mount, and I also think your comparison to Branham is dead on, and a bit scary.

Branham was easy to excommunicate because he fellowshipped the "enemy" in his interdenominational meetings.

[Baron1710]

Someone please be sure to " screen capture" LS bio page before it disappears

Can you do that and post it in this thread?

[DAII]

Wife on computer. Using my phone but will in a few.

[Baron1710]

Not sure how to make it part of the post.

[notofworks]

Not sure how to make it part of the post.


Wow...it's shocking seeing it right there. One more time....."Who is Lee Stoneking?" Nothing bothers these people, does it?

[Mirth1981]

Southern Eastern University is on Facebook. It has a whopping 18 members. :ursofunny
Not sure if it's the same one though...although it would be even funnier if it was.

[JN Anderson]

Bored? Intelligent people are never bored.

Doesn't it bother you that Stoneking was willing to pay for a bogus degree or that he puts himself out there as a PhD and an adjunct and when the "school" hears his name they say who is that? I am not sure who is the bigger fraud.

Where did he say that? I haven't been keeping up that good I guess.

[DAII]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TC55jmb13mI/AAAAAAAAAj0/AMXGgiPQlik/ls1.png

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TC55j-xeR0I/AAAAAAAAAj4/8mWW2Z1cR34/ls2.png

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TC55jzOsCrI/AAAAAAAAAj8/XwD7Cq8xqxI/ls3.png

[mizpeh]

I don't think this will be a big deal to many folks since LS doesn't advertise or try to capitalize on his degrees.

[DAII]

You are so right Mizzy ... they wouldn't care if he preached another gospel by attributing spiritual significance, power and authority to a woman's uncut hair, encouraging the practice of hair laying and attributing supernatural miracles and angelic intervention in this single act of obedience.

[mizpeh]

You are so right Mizzy ... they wouldn't care if he preached another gospel by attributing spiritual significance, power and authority to a woman's uncut hair, encouraging the practice of hair laying and attributing supernatural miracles and angelic intervention in this single act of obedience.Probably not.

[mizpeh]

I feel sorry for those female saints in the OT. They didn't know to not cut their hair. Even the witches know the power in uncut hair! They missed out on many blessings. How sad!

[JN Anderson]

Where was this image posted? Is this his vitae for something?

[mizpeh]

Where was this image posted? Is this his vitae for something?

http://www.leestoneking.com/biography.htm

[Praxeas]

So the question is: Why would Lee Stoneking go through the trouble of obtaining a Ph.D from this joke of a university?
So I don't have to read through pages and pages of posts, can someone give me information where LS makes this claim?

[mizpeh]

So I don't have to read through pages and pages of posts, can someone give me information where LS makes this claim?

Go to his official website.

[Praxeas]

I thought this place was in Arkansas or somewhere...why is everything in British pounds?

[Praxeas]

Is this where he got his degree?
http://www.seuniversity.edu/

[Praxeas]

Languages? Why would anyone list "speaks some hebrew" or "studied French for x years"? Who cares unless you are fluent?

[jfrog]

Is this where he got his degree?
http://www.seuniversity.edu/

Is that the website for "Southern Eastern University"?

[Timmy]

Is this where he got his degree?
http://www.seuniversity.edu/

No. Here: http://www.southerneasternuniversity.co.uk/

[Jeffrey]

Is this where he got his degree?
http://www.seuniversity.edu/

No, that would actually be legit. That's an accredited AOG school, that has been there since 1946, with very qualified faculty (some have actually published highly scholarly work). Compare that to the generic version of SEU, Southern Eastern University which is a tent in Arkansas that asks for a check in exchange for a degree. No faculty published on their 9.99/year website,... oh you get the point.

Read the thread. It's worth your time at least in terms of entertainment.

[Jeffrey]

Languages? Why would anyone list "speaks some hebrew" or "studied French for x years"? Who cares unless you are fluent?

or "ate with a Jewish man before" lol

[Jeffrey]

"kissed a girl one time"

[jfrog]

"kissed a girl one time"

did you like it?

(Could Jeffery be Katy Perry?)......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[Timmy]

I thought this place was in Arkansas or somewhere...why is everything in British pounds?

There is discussion of this, here:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/7985-southern-eastern-university.html

[Jeffrey]

did you like it?

(Could Jeffery be Katy Perry?)......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

All us crazy rock stars have Pentecostal roots :)

[Jeffrey]

There is discussion of this, here:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/7985-southern-eastern-university.html

Apparently this thing has a business license in Arkansas (the "charter"). That's not the same thing as approval to operate as a university, but since this thing isn't located in Arkansas, that's probably legal.

Then it registers as a foreign corporation in the UK and cites British legislation (the "Education Reform Act of 1998") stating that use of foreign degrees is legal in the UK.

So this thing dodges Arkansas education regulations because it operates out of the UK, and it thinks that it dodges British education regulations because it has an Arkansas business license.

So effectively, it is nowhere at all.

Pretty neat.

Actually, many British degree mills do this, though until recently Ireland was the preferred locale for the foreign business license.*

Still want to know what the PhD is for. Very off to cite a degree and not put your concentration.

[Jeffrey]

Southeastern also has a cool alumni checker: http://www.seuniversity.edu/alumni/directory/index.php

[jfrog]

Still want to know what the PhD is for. Very off to cite a degree and not put your concentration.

It's not off if the only important "fact" you are trying to tell people is that you have your degree!

[Jeffrey]

It's not off if the only important "fact" you are trying to tell people is that you have your degree!

HA! I meant to type "odd."

I would think the educated minds in the UPC would be embarrassed of this.

So what are our takeaways boys and girls? Be honest, don't misrepresent yourself because that's just as dishonest as lying, and don't try to mislead people with false claims of expertise. Just say you are the man of God and you speak for him, and you answer to no one. That seems to work better. TIC

[Praxeas]

HA! I meant to type "odd."

I would think the educated minds in the UPC would be embarrassed of this.

So what are our takeaways boys and girls? Be honest, don't misrepresent yourself because that's just as dishonest as lying, and don't try to mislead people with false claims of expertise. Just say you are the man of God and you speak for him, and you answer to no one. That seems to work better. TIC
If they even know about it

[Timmy]

Southeastern also has a cool alumni checker: http://www.seuniversity.edu/alumni/directory/index.php

Southern Eastern doesn't even list their faculty. (I'm still waiting to hear back on that, by email.)

[Jason B]

In checking in with SEU, about getting a PhD so far the response time has been very slow on the part of Dr John Johnson, academic director SEU.

What I have learned is that:

Mr. Johnson was quick to inform me
"SEU is an American University and as such is not able to award UK qualifications."

Also they cannot admit students from Arkansas, odd considering that is where their "campus" is located.

And the best part so far is their email address you would expect something like jjohnson@SEU.edu. Right?

Oh no they are upscale the email address of the "academic director" is OwlsJKJ@aol.com

I will keep all of you updated in my pursuit of PhD.

Special thanks to Lee Stoneking who turned me on to his alma mater.

Hey Baron, when you get ahold of that guy see if you can get me a good deal on a couple of degrees. Maybe you can chew him down a little. :ursofunny

[Jason B]

So the question is: Why would Lee Stoneking go through the trouble of obtaining a Ph.D from this joke of a university?

Appearently he never considered someone checking it out.

[notofworks]

I feel sorry for those female saints in the OT. They didn't know to not cut their hair. Even the witches know the power in uncut hair! They missed out on many blessings. How sad!

Mizpeh....are you turning on LS? You've jumped me pretty hard in the past when I called him a heretic.

[Baron1710]

Hey Baron, when you get ahold of that guy see if you can get me a good deal on a couple of degrees. Maybe you can chew him down a little. :ursofunny

How about I just forward you the registration form? They don't care where you have gone to school, or if you have proof of it so...

[jfrog]

How about I just forward you the registration form? They don't care where you have gone to school, or if you have proof of it so...

They should market this to high school dropouts. Skip your GED and go straight to your Ph.D.

[mizpeh]

Mizpeh....are you turning on LS? You've jumped me pretty hard in the past when I called him a heretic.Why would you say that?

[Jason B]

Because 99.8 percent of his gullible audience is gullible, otherwise they wouldn't be listening to his pile of manure doctrine anyway. His audience is going to look at his degree and go, "WOW, not only is he sitting on the right hand of God, but he's educated. This gives even more credibility to his hair claims."

Is this a good time to tell you all that I have a Dr. of Psychology degree from NorthSouthern University?

Don't you mean NorthERN Souuthern University?

[Jason B]

How about I just forward you the registration form? They don't care where you have gone to school, or if you have proof of it so...

Baron, you're killing me. My wife is asking me what I'm smiling about. :ursofunny

[notofworks]

Why would you say that?


You said some seemingly non-supportive things about him...unless I don't know how to read.

[notofworks]

Baron, you're killing me. My wife is asking me what I'm smiling about. :ursofunny


He's had me howling throughout this thread!!:ursofunny

[Jason B]

Bored? Intelligent people are never bored.

Doesn't it bother you that Stoneking was willing to pay for a bogus degree or that he puts himself out there as a PhD and an adjunct and when the "school" hears his name they say who is that? I am not sure who is the bigger fraud.
Isn't that the $64,000 question

[mizpeh]

You said some seemingly non-supportive things about him...unless I don't know how to read.I said non supportive things about the teaching of the power of uncut hair.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I said non supportive things about the teaching of the power of uncut hair.


Please, anyone, answer these questions as I find the notion of "holy magic hair" laughable yet recognizing the value of personal convictions and committed consecrations.


Is he really preaching of power in the uncut hair, or the Holy Ghost power available to the women who practice this consecration (in connection to their faith in God)?


Is it wrong to think that Christians who do live a life of consecration(s) would have closer walk with the Lord? Paul assails vain religious piety, but does he negate the concept of consecrations and convictions?


Would that closer walk with the Lord (birthed out of a life of consecration) not be made manifest in the natural and spiritual circumstances of life-- maybe even if it was only some of the time?


Or are consecrations of no consequence in God's economy?


Are anointed people anointed from doing nothing to deepen their relationship with the Lord?


I know one can do all the standards perfectly and still not be saved, but isn't there anyone else here besides me who know of precious saints, praying men and women who practice some consecrations in connection with their faith? Aren't these people mighty people in God's Kingdom?

Aren't these people closer to the Lord than other saved people who have not developed any or are even lazy in their devotions without any consecration to speak of?

[Jermyn Davidson]

And Biblically, what makes religious piety vain? The intents behind the practices, right?


Or does Paul assail the very notion of religious piety? If this is the case, then there would be no argument for any standards or convictions at all.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Is it wrong to think that Christians who do live a life of consecration(s) would have closer walk with the Lord? Paul assails vain religious piety, but does he negate the concept of consecrations and convictions?



I think the issue is not whether personal consecration and sacrifice are a good thing.... the issue is when you insist that everyone else must follow suit.

[Praxeas]

Jesus saw their faith, not their rigid obedience to the law

[Jason B]

Wait wait it gets better...Here is the latest response.

I will e-mail the forms to you later this weekend.

Who is Lee Stoneking? If you wish him to work with you that may not be a problem but an SEU approved marker will have to assess your work.

:ursofunny

This guys wife obviously trims her hair....

[Timmy]

Well, I finally got another reply from SEU. Let me recap:

1. On 6/30, I sent this to their contact email: "Is there a directory of your faculty? I couldn't find one on your web site."

2. The next day, I got this response:
Sorry you have not given your name

Could you indicate what area and level of study you are interested in also your current qualification in order for me to assist you.
3. I replied the same day with my name and said "It's just curiosity. I won't be applying for admission."

4. After waiting for a reply for a few days, I sent a reminder on 7/3: "Could I see a list of your faculty, please?"

5. Got a reply to that, this morning. Are you ready? Are you sitting down? Put down the coffee. NOW, you better strap yourself to your chair. OK, here it is (don't say I didn't warn you):




I am sorry but your request does not make sense what do you want, if your next e-mail is as lacking in information it will be ignored

Dr John Johnson



There you have it! It "does not make sense" to ask for a list of their professors. :ursofunny

P.S. I kid you not, that is the exact, cut-n-pasted reply to the question (also cut-n-pasted) I sent yesterday. He quoted it in his note, so he wasn't referring to the previous note, where I said I wasn't going to apply for admission -- I can certainly understand how that wouldn't make sense to him! :ursofunny :ursofunny :ursofunny

[Timmy]

Of course, they obviously don't even know who their faculty is. "Who is Lee Stoneking?", after all. :toofunny

[notofworks]

Well, I finally got another reply from SEU. Let me recap:

1. On 6/30, I sent this to their contact email: "Is there a directory of your faculty? I couldn't find one on your web site."

2. The next day, I got this response:
Sorry you have not given your name

Could you indicate what area and level of study you are interested in also your current qualification in order for me to assist you.
3. I replied the same day with my name and said "It's just curiosity. I won't be applying for admission."

4. After waiting for a reply for a few days, I sent a reminder on 7/3: "Could I see a list of your faculty, please?"

5. Got a reply to that, this morning. Are you ready? Are you sitting down? Put down the coffee. NOW, you better strap yourself to your chair. OK, here it is (don't say I didn't warn you):




I am sorry but your request does not make sense what do you want, if your next e-mail is as lacking in information it will be ignored

Dr John Johnson



There you have it! It "does not make sense" to ask for a list of their professors. :ursofunny

P.S. I kid you not, that is the exact, cut-n-pasted reply to the question (also cut-n-pasted) I sent yesterday. He quoted it in his note, so he wasn't referring to the previous note, where I said I wasn't going to apply for admission -- I can certainly understand how that wouldn't make sense to him! :ursofunny :ursofunny :ursofunny


:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny
"...does not make sense what do you want...". Just like that? Exactly?



Dr. John Johnson. Yeah, and I'm Dr. Bob Smith.

[Timmy]

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny
"...does not make sense what do you want...". Just like that? Exactly?



Dr. John Johnson. Yeah, and I'm Dr. Bob Smith.

Exactly. Punctuation and all.

[notofworks]

Exactly. Punctuation and all.



AMAZING!!! Nothing any of us say can top what they actually are.

[Timmy]

If it weren't so expensive, I'd be tempted to get me a doctorate. Need to submit a paper, but that shouldn't be too hard. There's a bogus paper generator here (it's for computer science, not theology, but they probably wouldn't notice, anyway):

http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/

Just plug in your name, click, and instant scholarly paper! They'll even put it in a pdf for you. I tried it using Dr. John Johnson and Dr. Lee Stoneking just for fun. And oh yes, it was fun! :lol Here's an excerpt:

An Exploration of Access Points

Dr. John Johnson and Dr. Lee Stoneking

Abstract
Many system administrators would agree that, had it not been for encrypted epistemologies, the deployment of B-trees might never have occurred. After years of technical research into Boolean logic, we confirm the refinement of Byzantine fault tolerance, which embodies the unfortunate principles of algorithms. In our research we prove that IPv6 and write-ahead logging are mostly incompatible [37].

. . .

[mental]

It's a good thing you grabbed this. Stoneking's credentials are already starting to change. This is very sad.

Education:

High School Graduate
Seminary Graduate
Graduated from Apostolic Bible Institute, St. Paul, Minnesota in 1967 as Honor Student of the Year and awarded Scholarship Award Certificate.

Degrees:

Bachelor of Theology in Apostolic Studies
Apostolic Bible College - St. Paul, Minnesota
Doctor of Christian Philosophy in Christian Education - Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus







http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TC55jmb13mI/AAAAAAAAAj0/AMXGgiPQlik/ls1.png

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TC55j-xeR0I/AAAAAAAAAj4/8mWW2Z1cR34/ls2.png

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TC55jzOsCrI/AAAAAAAAAj8/XwD7Cq8xqxI/ls3.png

[Baron1710]

Well it is good to see that he is reading our work here. But amazing that he has created more credentials for me to verify. I guess he can make them up faster than I can check them out.

[DAII]

It's a good thing you grabbed this. Stoneking's credentials are already starting to change. This is very sad.

Education:

High School Graduate
Seminary Graduate
Graduated from Apostolic Bible Institute, St. Paul, Minnesota in 1967 as Honor Student of the Year and awarded Scholarship Award Certificate.

Degrees:

Bachelor of Theology in Apostolic Studies
Apostolic Bible College - St. Paul, Minnesota
Doctor of Christian Philosophy in Christian Education - Institute for Christian Works Bible College and Seminary - South Carolina Campus

Words don't begin to describe. We are witnessing chicanery before our eyes.

[Baron1710]

Another quality school here, man he sure knows how to pick them.

http://www.icwseminary.org/

What a webpage. What a joke.

If you are going to puff yourself up with a bogus degree at least pick a school who doesn't blast accreditation on their front page.

THE ACCREDITATION DECEPTION
http://www.icwseminary.org/deception.htm

[Baron1710]

Words don't begin to describe. We are witnessing chicanery before our eyes.

Daniel, much props for suggesting and doing that capture of his page.

What a charlatan.

[DAII]

I am sure he could always blame his webmaster for using too much creative license.

We are witnessing an unraveling.

[Baron1710]

Wow and look at the tuition page.

Wondering if he even bothered to pay for the diploma from there since they don't seem to have the degree that he listed as one that they are selling.


These tuition rates apply only to students in the United States and Canada. For international students please check with us. Unless otherwise stated, the tuition for each certificate and diploma program is as follows:

Certificates $100.00
Diplomas $250.00
Unless otherwise stated, the tuition for each degree level is as follows:

Associate's $500.00
Bachelor's $750.00
Master's $1,000.00
Doctoral $2,000.00

[Baron1710]

I am sure he could always blame his webmaster for using to much creative license.

We are witnessing an unraveling.

I wish I had the time to really track this guy. I am willing to bet the deception goes deeper than a bogus degree.

[DAII]

I wish I had the time to really track this guy. I am willing to bet the deception goes deeper than a bogus degree.

I will capture this latest credentials update .... because after you're done researching it ... it too will disappear.

[DAII]

Wow and look at the tuition page.

Wondering if he even bothered to pay for the diploma from there since they don't seem to have the degree that he listed as one that they are selling.


These tuition rates apply only to students in the United States and Canada. For international students please check with us. Unless otherwise stated, the tuition for each certificate and diploma program is as follows:

Certificates $100.00
Diplomas $250.00
Unless otherwise stated, the tuition for each degree level is as follows:

Associate's $500.00
Bachelor's $750.00
Master's $1,000.00
Doctoral $2,000.00

I guess the next step is to find out if it ever was offered.

[mental]

I wish I had the time to really track this guy. I am willing to bet the deception goes deeper than a bogus degree.

In the real world people get fired for pulling stunts like this.

[DAII]

The man is mocking Pentecost.

[DAII]

In the real world people get fired for pulling stunts like this.
They do.

There is example after example.

[notofworks]

I wish I had the time to really track this guy. I am willing to bet the deception goes deeper than a bogus degree.



THAT is the truth!!!

[DAII]

The cover-up. Pun intended.


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rjZMUSTyomU/TDDhc4-wgaI/AAAAAAAAAkY/Spsuys8OWXo/lsjuly4.png

[DAII]

Lee .... let me help you out with damage control ...

Just say you've been hacked by the mockers and scoffers you seek to whip in the Lord's name.

That will make you a martyr.

[notofworks]

In the real world people get fired for pulling stunts like this.


Excellent point. Several coaches have been hired at major universities and then fired before they ever coached a game, because of just this.

[notofworks]

Lee .... let me help you out with damage control ...

Just say you've been hacked by the mockers and scoffers you seek to whip.

That will make you a martyr.


:lol

[seguidordejesus]

This is craziness.

[DAII]

Excellent point. Several coaches have been hired at major universities and then fired before they ever coached a game, because of just this.

Journalists .... CEOs .... etc, etc, etc.

[DAII]

This is craziness.
You can fight my theology but you can't fight my results.

[DAII]

This may not be far from the mark ....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d61DP5YyCr0

"I have been taught by masters of cruelty." .... Lee Stoneking

Another gospel.

[Baron1710]

This may not be far from the mark ....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d61DP5YyCr0

"I have been taught by masters of cruelty." .... Lee Stoneking

Another gospel.

Dan I think he may say I have been "cut" rather than "taught" perhaps?

[notofworks]

Dan I think he may say I have been "cut" rather than "taught" perhaps?


Sounds like, "Taught", I think, and his mouth seemed to match that.

[Jason B]

it's a good thing you grabbed this. Stoneking's credentials are already starting to change. This is very sad.

Education:

High school graduate
seminary graduate
graduated from apostolic bible institute, st. Paul, minnesota in 1967 as honor student of the year and awarded scholarship award certificate.

Degrees:

Bachelor of theology in apostolic studies
apostolic bible college - st. Paul, minnesota
doctor of christian philosophy in christian education - institute for christian works bible college and seminary - south carolina campus

unbeleivable!!!

[mental]

I’m kicking myself now. I put in 4 years of hard work at a recognized university, only get a lowly Bachelor’s degree. I could have simply coughed up $2000 and become a doctor!

Wow and look at the tuition page.

Wondering if he even bothered to pay for the diploma from there since they don't seem to have the degree that he listed as one that they are selling.


These tuition rates apply only to students in the United States and Canada. For international students please check with us. Unless otherwise stated, the tuition for each certificate and diploma program is as follows:

Certificates $100.00
Diplomas $250.00
Unless otherwise stated, the tuition for each degree level is as follows:

Associate's $500.00
Bachelor's $750.00
Master's $1,000.00
Doctoral $2,000.00

[notofworks]

I’m kicking myself now. I put in 4 years of hard work at a recognized university, only get a lowly Bachelor’s degree. I could have simply coughed up $2000 and become a doctor!


It's never too late! Write the check and achieve your dreams!!!

[Baron1710]

I’m kicking myself now. I put in 4 years of hard work at a recognized university, only get a lowly Bachelor’s degree. I could have simply coughed up $2000 and become a doctor!

I hear that. $2,000 would make 4 of my student loan payments.

That wouldn't pay for one of my law school classes.

[notofworks]

I hear that. $2,000 would make 4 of my student loan payments.

That wouldn't pay for one of my law school classes.


Whew, Baron. Sounds like you overpaid.

[Praxeas]

http://www.icwseminary.org/

[Baron1710]

Whew, Baron. Sounds like you overpaid.

Looks like it. On the other hand where will that degree LS paid for get him? Looks like a thread or two on AFF and not much else.

[Baron1710]

HEY LEE!!! You forgot to update your facebook page with your new degrees.

[Knight]

This is a response to the unwarranted comments, posted on the Apostolic Friends Forum regarding Mr. Lee Stoneking.

Firstly, the individual who posted such comments appears to be an individual that consistently posts comments on websites about other individuals, so it should not come as a surprise to see such conduct. In addition to this, it appears that the person has also violated the policy of the Apostolic Friends Forum, by using the forum as a means to circulate his or her propaganda.

Secondly, in speaking with the former Chair of SEU’s committee recently in Europe, communication was provided that verified that Mr. Stoneking was awarded an honorary Ph.D., from SEU, prior to the appointment of Mr. Johnson as Director. Mr. Johnson is currently being apprised of the matter by the former Chair of SEU in Europe. Mr. Stoneking has not been in any dialogue or direct communication with the author of such defamatory comments, who call’s themselves Baron.

As Mr. Stoneking’s British lawyer, we are currently looking into some additional matters regarding the underlying policies of the Apostolic Friends Forum, since we have been provided with confirmation and verification of Mr. Stoneking’s credentials and status. We anticipate that this resolves any misunderstanding.
Mr. Stoneking was honored by these schools for his lifetime work (SEU, ICW) he paid no funds or fees. you should print a retraction of your statements.

[Knight]

He has no facebook page or twitter, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves..you have not facts to back up these statements.

[Jason B]

This is a response to the unwarranted comments, posted on the Apostolic Friends Forum regarding Mr. Lee Stoneking.

Firstly, the individual who posted such comments appears to be an individual that consistently posts comments on websites about other individuals, so it should not come as a surprise to see such conduct. In addition to this, it appears that the person has also violated the policy of the Apostolic Friends Forum, by using the forum as a means to circulate his or her propaganda.

Secondly, in speaking with the former Chair of SEU’s committee recently in Europe, communication was provided that verified that Mr. Stoneking was awarded an honorary Ph.D., from SEU, prior to the appointment of Mr. Johnson as Director. Mr. Johnson is currently being apprised of the matter by the former Chair of SEU in Europe. Mr. Stoneking has not been in any dialogue or direct communication with the author of such defamatory comments, who call’s themselves Baron.

As Mr. Stoneking’s British lawyer, we are currently looking into some additional matters regarding the underlying policies of the Apostolic Friends Forum, since we have been provided with confirmation and verification of Mr. Stoneking’s credentials and status. We anticipate that this resolves any misunderstanding.
Mr. Stoneking was honored by these schools for his lifetime work (SEU, ICW) he paid no funds or fees. you should print a retraction of your statements.


Welcome to the forum, LS ;)

[MissBrattified]

This is a response to the unwarranted comments, posted on the Apostolic Friends Forum regarding Mr. Lee Stoneking.

Firstly, the individual who posted such comments appears to be an individual that consistently posts comments on websites about other individuals, so it should not come as a surprise to see such conduct. In addition to this, it appears that the person has also violated the policy of the Apostolic Friends Forum, by using the forum as a means to circulate his or her propaganda.

Secondly, in speaking with the former Chair of SEU’s committee recently in Europe, communication was provided that verified that Mr. Stoneking was awarded an honorary Ph.D., from SEU, prior to the appointment of Mr. Johnson as Director. Mr. Johnson is currently being apprised of the matter by the former Chair of SEU in Europe. Mr. Stoneking has not been in any dialogue or direct communication with the author of such defamatory comments, who call’s themselves Baron.

As Mr. Stoneking’s British lawyer, we are currently looking into some additional matters regarding the underlying policies of the Apostolic Friends Forum, since we have been provided with confirmation and verification of Mr. Stoneking’s credentials and status. We anticipate that this resolves any misunderstanding.
Mr. Stoneking was honored by these schools for his lifetime work (SEU, ICW) he paid no funds or fees. you should print a retraction of your statements.

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Wow. Scary post. :blink

:toofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

[Knight]

Jason I am not LS your a joke for saying so

[MissBrattified]

He has no facebook page or twitter, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves..you have not facts to back up these statements.

Yes...shame on ANYONE who would suggest that LS has a facebook page or twitter account! THAT is...well...simply...horrifying!!!!! :D :D :D

[MissBrattified]

Jason I am not LS your a joke for saying so

For an attorney, you certainly have poor punctuation and capitalization skills. :blink

[notofworks]

This is a response to the unwarranted comments, posted on the Apostolic Friends Forum regarding Mr. Lee Stoneking.

Firstly, the individual who posted such comments appears to be an individual that consistently posts comments on websites about other individuals, so it should not come as a surprise to see such conduct. In addition to this, it appears that the person has also violated the policy of the Apostolic Friends Forum, by using the forum as a means to circulate his or her propaganda.

Secondly, in speaking with the former Chair of SEU’s committee recently in Europe, communication was provided that verified that Mr. Stoneking was awarded an honorary Ph.D., from SEU, prior to the appointment of Mr. Johnson as Director. Mr. Johnson is currently being apprised of the matter by the former Chair of SEU in Europe. Mr. Stoneking has not been in any dialogue or direct communication with the author of such defamatory comments, who call’s themselves Baron.

As Mr. Stoneking’s British lawyer, we are currently looking into some additional matters regarding the underlying policies of the Apostolic Friends Forum, since we have been provided with confirmation and verification of Mr. Stoneking’s credentials and status. We anticipate that this resolves any misunderstanding.
Mr. Stoneking was honored by these schools for his lifetime work (SEU, ICW) he paid no funds or fees. you should print a retraction of your statements.


:ursofunny

[DAII]

This is a response to the unwarranted comments, posted on the Apostolic Friends Forum regarding Mr. Lee Stoneking.

Firstly, the individual who posted such comments appears to be an individual that consistently posts comments on websites about other individuals, so it should not come as a surprise to see such conduct. In addition to this, it appears that the person has also violated the policy of the Apostolic Friends Forum, by using the forum as a means to circulate his or her propaganda.

Secondly, in speaking with the former Chair of SEU’s committee recently in Europe, communication was provided that verified that Mr. Stoneking was awarded an honorary Ph.D., from SEU, prior to the appointment of Mr. Johnson as Director. Mr. Johnson is currently being apprised of the matter by the former Chair of SEU in Europe. Mr. Stoneking has not been in any dialogue or direct communication with the author of such defamatory comments, who call’s themselves Baron.

As Mr. Stoneking’s British lawyer, we are currently looking into some additional matters regarding the underlying policies of the Apostolic Friends Forum, since we have been provided with confirmation and verification of Mr. Stoneking’s credentials and status. We anticipate that this resolves any misunderstanding.
Mr. Stoneking was honored by these schools for his lifetime work (SEU, ICW) he paid no funds or fees. you should print a retraction of your statements.

Well, Baron, being a lawyer and all makes this very fascinating.

[Knight]

I am not the attorney, i forwarded a copy of the steps interested supporters are taking..

[notofworks]

Jason I am not LS your a joke for saying so



"Your a joke"? I thought you British folk knew better. It's "You're". Come on, go to class!!

[Praxeas]

This is a response to the unwarranted comments, posted on the Apostolic Friends Forum regarding Mr. Lee Stoneking.

Firstly, the individual who posted such comments appears to be an individual that consistently posts comments on websites about other individuals, so it should not come as a surprise to see such conduct. In addition to this, it appears that the person has also violated the policy of the Apostolic Friends Forum, by using the forum as a means to circulate his or her propaganda.

Secondly, in speaking with the former Chair of SEU’s committee recently in Europe, communication was provided that verified that Mr. Stoneking was awarded an honorary Ph.D., from SEU, prior to the appointment of Mr. Johnson as Director. Mr. Johnson is currently being apprised of the matter by the former Chair of SEU in Europe. Mr. Stoneking has not been in any dialogue or direct communication with the author of such defamatory comments, who call’s themselves Baron.

As Mr. Stoneking’s British lawyer, we are currently looking into some additional matters regarding the underlying policies of the Apostolic Friends Forum, since we have been provided with confirmation and verification of Mr. Stoneking’s credentials and status. We anticipate that this resolves any misunderstanding.
Mr. Stoneking was honored by these schools for his lifetime work (SEU, ICW) he paid no funds or fees. you should print a retraction of your statements.
Let me get this straight. You are Mr Stonekings British Lawyer? Does that mean you are a Limey or does that mean you live in Britain?

[Baron1710]

For an attorney, you certainly have poor punctuation and capitalization skills. :blink

So do I. Lol.

But guess what I can actually practice law in America. I wonder if this is someone on here playing a joke or that whacko from SEU trying to prop up his school.

[notofworks]

I am not the attorney, i forwarded a copy of the steps interested supporters are taking..


In post #145, you said you were. Are you confused? Wait....is this Baron or DAII with a phony ID trying to stir up trouble? :lol

Whoever you are, Knight, it's great to have you here. You're going to help spice things up. :bliss

[Praxeas]

So a lawyer sends a veiled threat..via a nobody? Who is Knight?

[DAII]

At this juncture Knight you are aware that it is a crime here to misrepresent yourself as a lawyer.

[Baron1710]

All I can say is, BRING IT ON!!!

I will be looking for your process server. BTW Where do you plan on filing this suit?

[Jason B]

Jason I am not LS your a joke for saying so

ok so your just an LS doulos

[notofworks]

So do I. Lol.

But guess what I can actually practice law in America. I wonder if this is someone on here playing a joke or that whacko from SEU trying to prop up his school.


"Knight" is either:

1) A Phony
2) You
3) DAII
4) An Idiot
5) Someone who likes LS and is pi....I mean, ticked off.

[MissBrattified]

I am not the attorney, i forwarded a copy of the steps interested supporters are taking..

LOL!!!! So, like the fb LS fan page creators, this is still someone *standing in* for Mr. Stoneking himself...right?

LS has made no personal response?

Who asked LS about his degree, and found out that he didn't pay a red cent for it?

[Praxeas]

All I can say is, BRING IT ON!!!

I will be looking for your process server. BTW Where do you plan on filing this suit?
Let me take a guess....Michigan?

[notofworks]

At this juncture Knight you are aware that it is a crime here to misrepresent yourself as a lawyer.


Ouch. It's also a crime to misrepresent yourself as a Man of God but that's not stopping LS. (oops, I better careful or I might get sued)

[Baron1710]

"Knight" is either:

1) A Phony
2) You
3) DAII
4) An Idiot
5) Someone who likes LS and is pi....I mean, ticked off.

Well it is not me.

[notofworks]

Well it is not me.

:lol
I just figured I'd give you a chance to deny it because some will think it's you!

[MissBrattified]

So do I. Lol.

Haha! Okay, fair enough.

But guess what I can actually practice law in America. I wonder if this is someone on here playing a joke or that whacko from SEU trying to prop up his school.

That would be interesting....

[DAII]

Knight, are you posting from the UK or here?

[Praxeas]

Knight, are you posting from the UK or here?
He claims to have hosted a conference, on another thread, where you posted LS video from

[Baron1710]

I do find it interesting that the official Stoneking page has changed. Which means he has to know about this thread.

Hey Lee, you wouldn't sue your brother would you? Well if you try I will file a motion to dismiss with a motion for sanctions so you can pay my fees. Hope you collect a big offering.

[DAII]

It is not me, NOW.

[notofworks]

It is not me, NOW.


Not me either. I haven't used "Your" instead of "You're" in 22 years.:lol

[DAII]

I am not the attorney, i forwarded a copy of the steps interested supporters are taking..

So you posted someone else's words?
Admin can you verify if proof of credentials were provided?

[Baron1710]

Hey Knight, tell us about Lee's newest claims as to his PhD.

Why does the "school" not offer the degree he claims?

Why would he bother getting a degree from a diploma mill anyway?

Is he that insecure?

[DAII]

Classic thread.

[Jason B]

This is a response to the unwarranted comments, posted on the Apostolic Friends Forum regarding Mr. Lee Stoneking.

Firstly, the individual who posted such comments appears to be an individual that consistently posts comments on websites about other individuals, so it should not come as a surprise to see such conduct. In addition to this, it appears that the person has also violated the policy of the Apostolic Friends Forum, by using the forum as a means to circulate his or her propaganda.

Secondly, in speaking with the former Chair of SEU’s committee recently in Europe, communication was provided that verified that Mr. Stoneking was awarded an honorary Ph.D., from SEU, prior to the appointment of Mr. Johnson as Director. Mr. Johnson is currently being apprised of the matter by the former Chair of SEU in Europe. Mr. Stoneking has not been in any dialogue or direct communication with the author of such defamatory comments, who call’s themselves Baron.

As Mr. Stoneking’s British lawyer, we are currently looking into some additional matters regarding the underlying policies of the Apostolic Friends Forum, since we have been provided with confirmation and verification of Mr. Stoneking’s credentials and status. We anticipate that this resolves any misunderstanding.
Mr. Stoneking was honored by these schools for his lifetime work (SEU, ICW) he paid no funds or fees. you should print a retraction of your statements.

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? ....I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? 1 Corinthians 6:1,5

[Baron1710]

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? ....I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? 1 Corinthians 6:1,5

Lee only knows one passage from I Corinthians and it is not chapter 6.

[notofworks]

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? ....I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? 1 Corinthians 6:1,5


Don't worry....nobody's suing anybody. This is a ginormous pile of hooey. Entertaining hooey, but hooey nonetheless.

[*AQuietPlace*]

This is a hoot! :lol

[Baron1710]

Don't worry....nobody's suing anybody. This is a ginormous pile of hooey. Entertaining hooey, but hooey nonetheless.

Please...Please...Please sue me. What is the going rate in Federal Court for attorney fees? probably 4-5 hundred an hour.

I would be to take your money for every hour I have to spend verifying my claims and filing the motion to dismiss.

[Jermyn Davidson]

My goodness.... talk about drama!!!


I have and like one LS's sermons-- it's an older one called, "Failures".

It's a very encouraging and biblically grounded sermon.

Since I like LS, I am thinking that you guys are taking his stance on HMH out of context.

He does not think or preach about power in the hair. He preaches about the power in the lives of women who practice the consecration of not cutting their hair.

At least, this is what I HOPE he is trying to persuade people of-- the value of a personal consecration in the life of a Christian.


If this is what in fact he is preaching and teaching, then you guys may be mischaracterizing his work and thus, be on very dangerous grounds in putting your mouths on one of God's Anointed.


If this is not what he is preaching, I really hope he can explain himself, biblically.


Going back to the God's Anointed, isn't there any fear in "uncovering the nakedness" of a man that God has clearly used and may indeed be using to spread the Gospel?


If LS is preaching some abominable false doctrine laced in the trappings of pentecostal legalism, then I am against that doctrine 100%


I am also against the man of God's credibility being ripped to shreds here-- without fear.


I wish he would come on here himself and attempt to defend the message that God has given him.


I wish that you guys would not make sport of this man of God.


If LS is wrong, then he is wrong-- but this can't be right either.

[Timmy]

Well, I finally got another reply from SEU. Let me recap:

1. On 6/30, I sent this to their contact email: "Is there a directory of your faculty? I couldn't find one on your web site."

2. The next day, I got this response:
Sorry you have not given your name

Could you indicate what area and level of study you are interested in also your current qualification in order for me to assist you.
3. I replied the same day with my name and said "It's just curiosity. I won't be applying for admission."

4. After waiting for a reply for a few days, I sent a reminder on 7/3: "Could I see a list of your faculty, please?"

5. Got a reply to that, this morning. Are you ready? Are you sitting down? Put down the coffee. NOW, you better strap yourself to your chair. OK, here it is (don't say I didn't warn you):




I am sorry but your request does not make sense what do you want, if your next e-mail is as lacking in information it will be ignored

Dr John Johnson

. . .

6. My response to the above:

Does your university have professors, instructors, lecturers, etc.? If so, I would like to see a list of their names. Thank you

Tim

7. His response:

Tim

Your request is very strange as you have indicated that you do not wish to be a student of SEU. I am not prepared to divulge personal information on those who work with SEU but am prepared to indicate that most of the staff are part time, all have British qualifications in the areas they support and mark in and most hold or have held full time posts in the British education system. If you will indicate who you are and why you want the information I will reconsider.

Dr John Johnson

Well, that explains it. It's a privacy thing. Which is perfectly understandable. :lol

[*AQuietPlace*]

Since I like LS, I am thinking that you guys are taking his stance on HMH out of context.'

But this is the problem, Jermyn....... because people like him, he's getting a pass on preaching this unbiblical doctrine all over the country.



He does not think or preach about power in the hair. He preaches about the power in the lives of women who practice the consecration of not cutting their hair.




If he was only preaching power in consecration, there would be no need to focus so much on hair. He is unnecessarily and unnaturally focused on hair. There are many ways to consecrate yourself to God.

[notofworks]

My goodness.... talk about drama!!!


I have and like one LS's sermons-- it's an older one called, "Failures".

It's a very encouraging and biblically grounded sermon.

Since I like LS, I am thinking that you guys are taking his stance on HMH out of context.

He does not think or preach about power in the hair. He preaches about the power in the lives of women who practice the consecration of not cutting their hair.

At least, this is what I HOPE he is trying to persuade people of-- the value of a personal consecration in the life of a Christian.


If this is what in fact he is preaching and teaching, then you guys may be mischaracterizing his work and thus, be on very dangerous grounds in putting your mouths on one of God's Anointed.


If this is not what he is preaching, I really hope he can explain himself, biblically.


Going back to the God's Anointed, isn't there any fear in "uncovering the nakedness" of a man that God has clearly used and may indeed be using to spread the Gospel?


If LS is preaching some abominable false doctrine laced in the trappings of pentecostal legalism, then I am against that doctrine 100%


I am also against the man of God's credibility being ripped to shreds here-- without fear.


I wish he would come on here himself and attempt to defend the message that God has given him.


I wish that you guys would not make sport of this man of God.


If LS is wrong, then he is wrong-- but this can't be right either.


I hear and respect your pleas here, Jermyn. And it gives me pause for a moment to consider what is being said.

However, the OT concept of "touching the anointed" gets stretched way out of context by those who wish to ram-rod their way through the gullible who are willing to shell out big bucks to "feel good".

There is a big difference between those who have failed, come short, erred in some way, or handled something poorly, and those who are intentionally and deceitfully misrepresenting the truth in order to appear to be someone they're not.

Paul was RUTHLESS in pointing those out. He named them. He charged them. Why? Because he cared with all his heart for the most precious thing on earth....The Church.

True...Baron and DA aren't Paul. But they're clearly, in my opinion, doing something that Paul would never hesitate to do.

There are mean spirited people who just seek to destroy. I can VERY confidently say that none of those digging up facts here fall into that category.

[mental]

My goodness.... talk about drama!!!

If this is what in fact he is preaching and teaching, then you guys may be mischaracterizing his work and thus, be on very dangerous grounds in putting your mouths on one of God's Anointed.



Does anyone else get tired of preachers using the old "touch not mine anointed" as a pass for bad behaviour and lousy exegesis? If you are going to make public statements you need to be prepared to stand by them. If Stoneking gets "ripped to shreds" for his own words, he has no one to blame but himself.

[notofworks]

I just went to Facebook to look at LS' page and there's actually ANOTHER Lee Stoneking!!! He's from Minnesota. What are the odds???

[MissBrattified]

Jermyn, I understand what you're saying. Generally speaking, I agree. This thread really isn't about LS's teachings. It's about the advertisement of a possibly illegitimate degree on the biography page of his website.

I don't personally want to be in the position of disrespecting any child of God. If that's how my comments have come across to you, then I apologize. However, there are legitimate questions here that should be answered, and when they aren't answered directly, or the answer is only to further obfuscate, it makes it look like the negative assumptions are pretty much true.

I just don't understand how a bogus "college" could issue honorary degrees at all (and what would be their motivation to do so if they're just about issuing paper in exchange for funds?). How on earth they would come up with Lee Stoneking's name in the mix in the first place? Either way, let's assume it's TRUE that he received an honorary (and free) degree from SEU. Since it's a bogus university, he shouldn't want to be associated with them, let alone be their "Adjunct Professor."

[Jermyn Davidson]

But this is the problem, Jermyn....... because people like him, he's getting a pass on preaching this unbiblical doctrine all over the country.

Then someone of AUTHORITY within our fellowship (or maybe even outside of our fellowship) needs to help him see the error of his ways. Making sport of him is not the way to do it.




If he was only preaching power in consecration, there would be no need to focus so much on hair. He is unnecessarily and unnaturally focused on hair. There are many ways to consecrate yourself to God.


I agree that there are many ways to consecrate ourselves. Still, the uncut hair is a way for Christian women to consecrate themselves.

Is he presenting this as heaven or hell?

Is presenting this as a "sure-fire" way to ensure the blessings of God in every natural circumstance?

Are his presentations a springboard for other spiritual abuses that seem to permeate some of the churches of our fellowship?


Even if the answer was, "YES" to each and everyone of the questions above, this thread is NOT the way to handle him and his false doctrine.


If the answer is YES to my above questions, WE HAVE AN ISSUE OF LEADERSHIP FAILURE WITHIN OUR FELLOWSHIP which needs to be addressed ASAP for sake of the souls that this organanization ministers to.



HEY UPCI LEADERSHIP GUYS!!!! ARE YOU READING THIS???? WHY DON'T YOU GUYS DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS-- IF INDEED HE IS OUT OF ORDER!!!!


No man of God's credibility should be publicly ripped to shreds.

[DAII]

Praxeas, Knight did claim to host the Prophetic Word conference in MI where Justin attended and LS spoke.

Dr. Art Wilson is the Senior Pastor of and founder of that church.

[Praxeas]

Then someone of AUTHORITY within our fellowship (or maybe even outside of our fellowship) needs to help him see the error of his ways. Making sport of him is not the way to do it.






.
Daniel Segraves already addressed this teaching. The rest of the UPC leadership doesn't seem to care. They even had a picture of a woman on their website, letting her hair down with a capture about this sister summoning angels.

As far as LS's teaching, as part of his many messages he has women laying their hair on people needing healing. He has someone reminding God that HE owes her because she did not cut her hair..that's not about "consecration" that is about the hair. There are no testimonies about a woman reminding God she has not committed adultery.

The bible says we lay hands, not hair. No where in the bible are miracles like this connected with religious obedience or obedience to religious rules. We are told we need faith. We are told we need to pray. LS says, we need more women with uncut hair. He even teaches a woman that cuts her hair puts her husband and kids in jeopardy...they lose angelic protection

That is false doctrine

[Praxeas]

Praxeas, Knight did claim to host the Prophetic Word conference in MI where Justin attended and LS spoke.

Dr. Art Wilson is the Senior Pastor of and founder of that church.
Hmmm..... well is IP is from Michigan

[Praxeas]

During his academic years of training, Dr. Wilson attended Mott Community College where he studied Business Management. He also attended Kent Christian College, Texas Bible College and later he received His PhD in Education from the Institute of Christian Works Bible College & Seminary. Dr. Wilson finally completed his academic training within the religious field by receiving his PhD in Divinity from Southern Eastern University. He went onto obtain several certifications from the World Natural Health Organization and is a State Registered Counselor with the State of Washington. Dr. Wilson currently assists as an adjunct faculty member of an Institute of Christian Works Bible College as an overseer of examination proctoring and invigilation.

He is the author of the book, The Diversity Harvest, which is currently in its second printing and is currently authoring two other books, Returning Back to the Garden of Eden, and Teaching Christians to Respond to Islam.

[DAII]

Hmmm..... well is IP is from Michigan

http://www.pwawc.com/

[Praxeas]

http://www.theinternationalchurch.org/staff.php?staffID=14006&

[*AQuietPlace*]

Then someone of AUTHORITY within our fellowship (or maybe even outside of our fellowship) needs to help him see the error of his ways. .

I agree. Someone should. IMO, it's getting way out of hand.

[DAII]

Another Southern Eastern, grad.

Hmm.

[DAII]

And went to the other school as well.

Jackpot!

[Praxeas]

That other "college" does list him on faculty

[Jermyn Davidson]

Either way, let's assume it's TRUE that he received an honorary (and free) degree from SEU. Since it's a bogus university, he shouldn't want to be associated with them, let alone be their "Adjunct Professor."

Maybe it's bogus, maybe it's not.

He wouldn't be the subject of such scrutiny if he wasn't preaching what he preaches in the first place.

Again, this is the wrong way to handle it.


I'm not offended enough to suggest the closing of the thread.


I want the opposite done.


I WANT HIS LEADERSHIP, SOMEONE THAT HE IS ACCOUNTABLE TO, TO PULL HIM TO THE SIDE AND HELP HIM-- JUST LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS IT SHOULD HAPPEN.


I could be wrong, but I am willing to bet that NO ONE on this thread has attempted to help this man of God out of error-- if he is in error.


That's the point of all of this-- he's a "fake", a "charlatan" and look! Here's the proof!


LS himself may be deceived, however Saul was more than deceived. He became wicked! Still, David did not do to Saul what has been done to LS on this thread.


Maybe LS needs to be helped out of error or dealt with accordingly.

This is the wrong way to do it.


Which, by the way UPCI LEADERSHIP-- this would have never happened if you had not failed LS in exercising leadership over him in the first place-- if he is out of order.

If he is not, make it clear that he is not.

If he is, do what the Bible says do and help him.

[DAII]

It would seem "Dr" Wilson has a vested interest in protecting the integrity of those two schools

And having attended Kent College perhaps where he met Lee, who lists he was a contributing adjunct there at one time.

My sister went to Kent for a year.

[Praxeas]

The so called University seems to be a diploma mill. My question is, why would anyone even bother to claim it? I mean why include that in a bio or a resume? Or why pay for a PHd other than to try to look good to those that don't realize what a diploma mill is?

Also...why change it now that someone has pointed out it's a diploma mill?

[notofworks]

Maybe it's bogus, maybe it's not.

He wouldn't be the subject of such scrutiny if he wasn't preaching what he preaches in the first place.

Again, this is the wrong way to handle it.


I'm not offended enough to suggest the closing of the thread.


I want the opposite done.


I WANT HIS LEADERSHIP, SOMEONE THAT HE IS ACCOUNTABLE TO, TO PULL HIM TO THE SIDE AND HELP HIM-- JUST LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS IT SHOULD HAPPEN.


I could be wrong, but I am willing to bet that NO ONE on this thread has attempted to help this man of God out of error-- if he is in error.


That's the point of all of this-- he's a "fake", a "charlatan" and look! Here's the proof!


LS himself may be deceived, however Saul was more than deceived. He became wicked! Still, David did not do to Saul what has been done to LS on this thread.


Maybe LS needs to be helped out of error or dealt with accordingly.

This is the wrong way to do it.


Which, by the way UPCI LEADERSHIP-- this would have never happened if you had not failed LS in exercising leadership over him in the first place-- if he is out of order.

If he is not, make it clear that he is not.

If he is, do what the Bible says do and help him.


I agree....The UPC needs to shut him down and if they don't, they have even less credibility than they do now. But you and I both know, they're not going to.

Is he a "Fraud"? Well, he's presenting himself to be something that he is not. What do you suggest we call him?

[DAII]

Prax, screen capture the Wilson bio quickly. On my phone

[Praxeas]

This one is better Dan

http://www.artwilson.com/

[DAII]

If I am reading Dr Wilson's vitae correctly he only attended Mott Community, Kent and TBC.

No Bachelor's or Master's. And may help run the Institute in question.

OMW!

[Praxeas]

Prax, screen capture the Wilson bio quickly. On my phone
I already did

[Jermyn Davidson]

I agree....The UPC needs to shut him down and if they don't, they have even less credibility than they do now. But you and I both know, they're not going to.

Is he a "Fraud"? Well, he's presenting himself to be something that he is not. What do you suggest we call him?

His name is Lee Stoneking.


Doesn't anyone on AFF have any "direct" connections to somebody, anybody in St. Louis? Someone who, after reading all of this will see the importance of addressing him, his diploma-mill degrees and his potentially false doctrine?

As long as he is endorsed by the UPCI, everyone who carries that name is guilty of his misdeeds.

Sure this is guilt by association-- but the world, you know those folks we are supposed to be unspotted to, the world will declare the UPCI guilty.

Then, who will reach them?


Convince someone in St. Louis that the Gospel is bigger than one man and our mission for reaching souls is FAR TOO IMPORTANT for one man to use the UPCI platform as a means to spreading false doctrine-- if that is what he is doing.

If he is indeed operating with the blessings of the UPCI, then let the UPCI make it clear.

[Baron1710]

Going out to play catch with my son, but this thread is getting interesting.

Jermyn, I would say one thing to you.

Peter was to blame so I withstood him to his face.

This was done publicly, because what he had done was done in public. When you announce to the world you are something you are not, you shouldn't be surprised when you are publicly confronted for it.

[DAII]

This one is better Dan

http://www.artwilson.com/
Please screen capture!

We got ourselves a live one

[Praxeas]

I wonder if he changed LS's website or told LS to change it...this is all very suspicious now

[Praxeas]

Please screen capture!

We got ourselves a live one
I got one of both

[notofworks]

I got one of both

Be careful, you might get sued.

[notofworks]

Please screen capture!

We got ourselves a live one


By the way, DA, after you dropped the "illegal to misrepresent oneself as a lawyer" bomb you dropped, I believe "Knight" disappeared.:heeheehee

[DAII]

The Dr Wilson and LS connection is one worth pursuing.

[DAII]

By the way, DA, after you dropped the "illegal to misrepresent oneself as a lawyer" bomb you dropped, I believe "Knight" disappeared.:heeheehee

Bro, worst than that Knight claims to have hosted that Prophetic conference which can only mean he is or is pretending to be "Dr" Wilson.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Going out to play catch with my son, but this thread is getting interesting.

Jermyn, I would say one thing to you.

Peter was to blame so I withstood him to his face.

This was done publicly, because what he had done was done in public. When you announce to the world you are something you are not, you shouldn't be surprised when you are publicly confronted for it.


I see where you are coming from with that.


This issues with LS and with this other preacher too needs confrontation.

The confrontation should not be handled with maliciousness, neither in a way to appear to be making sport of them.

These are men of God and should be respected as such.


UPCI LEADERSHIP, please handle this and the surrounding issues QUICKLY-- if for nothing else than for the sake of the souls that have heard and will hear your form of the Gospel.

[mental]

After all this, I would like to see some medical records showing that he was actually clinically dead for as long as he says he was. I am not saying it didn’t happen but at this point LS’s credibility is pretty low.

[DAII]

Pieces coming together.

It is unraveling.

[notofworks]

After all this, I would like to see some medical records showing that he was actually clinically dead for as long as he says he was. I am not saying it didn’t happen but at this point LS’s credibility is pretty low.


I have never wanted to speak out about it or question it....there's too many intangibles with it.....but I totally agree. My immediate reaction to it was, "Baloney." I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[MissBrattified]

Jermyn, I understand. Really, I do. However, there is a BIG difference between being "sincerely wrong" about a doctrine and being deliberately dishonest about one's education.

Baron's investigation has been primarily into the legitimacy of Southern Eastern University, and in my opinion, it should continue. If they're bogus, then EVERYONE needs to know because apparently there are multiple ministers claiming degrees from that source. If you look at Art Wilson's page, he and his wife both claim degrees from Southern Eastern University. If the school is bogus, then all the degrees it has issued are bogus as well.

If they've all been duped into thinking they have legitimate degrees, then they need to know and need to take action against SEU. If they, however, are aware that it's a fraud and are deliberately showing off fraudulent credentials--THAT is a problem. That's deception and puffery, plain and simple.

And, I've never one time stated that I didn't like Lee Stoneking. One of the best Sunday School seminars I've ever been to was one in Missouri years ago where LS was the main speaker. I've always enjoyed his approach to exuberant worship, and his rather eccentric personality. I DO think he (and Ruth Reider) are way off base on their hair teachings, and I DO think he practices sloppy exegesis on a regular basis (and the latter isn't unique to LS). I'm disappointed in the UPCI leadership for not nipping it in the bud. I'm actually confused by it. Bro. Steve Epley is way more conservative than your average UPCer, and he had no problem stating that he disagreed with the teaching.

When you have people from all walks and flavors of Pentecost questioning a teaching, it lends quite a bit of credibility to the question. Women who want to cut their hair are most certainly not the only or the most vocal dissenters in this case.

[Praxeas]

Be careful, you might get sued.
Unless he has something to hide, why would he try?

[Praxeas]

Bro, worst than that Knight claims to have hosted that Prophetic conference which can only mean he is or is pretending to be "Dr" Wilson.
This poster is from Michigan, yet he could be a member of this person's church and just saying he is Mr Wilson. Its happened before.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I have never wanted to speak out about it or question it....there's too many intangibles with it.....but I totally agree. My immediate reaction to it was, "Baloney." I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

SEE UPCI LEADERSHIP!!! THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T POLICE YOUR OWN!

When I was a Lance Corporal in the Marines, I would have preferred to be approached by my Corporal or Sergeant if I was messed up.

Quick corrections made in house prevents the whole unit from looking ate up to our superiors in command and those outside of our command!


No one wants to be a part of an ate up unit!
God forbid you are the Marine that gives your unit a bad name!

[DAII]

Well this is more than SEU since LS had that degree pulled from his website. It has been replaced by a doctorate from the Institute.

Where Dr Wilson also states he teaches and helps monitor.

"Dr. Wilson currently assists as an adjunct faculty member of an Institute of Christian Works Bible College as an overseer of examination proctoring and invigilation."

[MissBrattified]

Jermyn, I think you're overreacting. Baron has been documenting his investigation into Southern Eastern University. Anyone who claims a degree from that University will be affected negatively, if his suspicions turn out to be correct.

If his suspicions ARE confirmed, then I agree with you--it should be reported directly to UPCI leadership in the form of a formal complaint.

[DAII]

Sometimes things just fall on your lap.

Thanks, Knight!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Jermyn, I think you're overreacting. Baron has been documenting his investigation into Southern Eastern University. Anyone who claims a degree from that University will be affected negatively, if his suspicions turn out to be correct.

If his suspicions ARE confirmed, then I agree with you--it should be reported directly to UPCI leadership in the form of a formal complaint.

If I am overreacting, it wouldn't be the first time.

Just pray for me-- I'm going to go drink some warm milk to calm my colic.

[Jermyn Davidson]

:toofunny:thumbsup

[DAII]

Well this is more than SEU since LS had that degree pulled from his website. It has been replaced by a doctorate from the Institute.

Where Dr Wilson also states he teaches and helps monitor.

"Dr. Wilson currently assists as an adjunct faculty member of an Institute of Christian Works Bible College as an overseer of examination proctoring and invigilation."

Maybe Dr. Wilson can explain the PHd exam and paper process as he is in charge of proctoring.

[Praxeas]

Has anyone noticed a "trend"? I've watched TBN from time to time and when they weren't called "Prophet" they were being called "Doctor"..I wonder how many Pentecostal ministers are getting degrees this way?

Juanita Bynum is an internationally acclaimed Empowerment Lecturer, recording artist, and media personality. Founder and President of Juanita Bynum Ministries in Norcross, Georgia, Dr. Bynum is the bestselling author of My Spiritual Inheritance, Matters of the Heart (which sold 500,000 copies in less than a year), No More Sheets which has sold over 1 million dvd’s and several other ground breaking books.
anyone know who made her a Dr?

[DAII]

Prax, can you run a WHois on the Institute's domains?

[Praxeas]

http://truthbiblecollege.org

[Praxeas]

egistrant Name:Rev. Dr. Bradley Carey
Registrant Organization:Christian Works
Registrant Street1:P.O. Box 2354
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Mount Vernon
Registrant State/Province:WA
Registrant Postal Code:98273
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.3607072752
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:

[Baron1710]

Prax, can you run a WHois on the Institute's domains?

Registered to:

Registrant Name:Rev. Dr. Bradley Carey

[DAII]

How about this one, Prax:

http://www.acquirethelegacyinstitute.net/

[Jermyn Davidson]

Has anyone noticed a "trend"? I've watched TBN from time to time and when they weren't called "Prophet" they were being called "Doctor"..I wonder how many Pentecostal ministers are getting degrees this way?


anyone know who made her a Dr?

Truth Bible College

http://truthbiblecollege.org/faq.htm

I like their answer to question #7.


Could God have actually blessed, or received Glory, or the cause of Christ advanced because of LS' and that other preacher's degrees from whatever diploma mill?

[DAII]

What do we know about Carey?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Truth Bible College
Jacksonville, FL


© 2005-Present Truth Bible College All rights reserved. designed & hosted by Blacksonville.Net


Makes me want to run out enroll today!!!

[DAII]

Look here, another Dr!

A WhoIs on Stoneking's site?

Registered to:

Registrant Name:Rev. Dr. Bradley Carey

[Baron1710]

What do we know about Carey?

Wait I can't stop laughing....


....Bishop Dr. P. Bradley Carey became Presiding Bishop
of the Fellowship of Christ International,
in Columbia, South Carolina.

I know that's not so funny but where I got it is...

http://www.christinternational.org/apostolic_succession.htm

He is in the direct line from Jesus for authority...lol

[Jermyn Davidson]

Info on Bradley Carey

http://bryanth798.tripod.com/

[MissBrattified]

Info on Bradley Carey

http://bryanth798.tripod.com/

Whoa. :blink

[Baron1710]

Look here, another Dr!

A WhoIs on Stoneking's site?

Registrant:
Lee Stoneking Ministries
P.O. Box 2259
Malta, NY 12020
US

Domain Name: LEESTONEKING.COM



Administrative Contact:
Stoneking, Lee LS@LEESTONEKING.COM
Evangelist
P.O. Box 2259
Malta, NY 12020
US
(518) 999-9999 fax: 999 999 9999

Technical Contact:
Carrington, Tim tcarrington@inspiremediallc.com
Inspire Media, LLC
PO Box 91
Houston, DE 19954
US
302-398-6323

[Jermyn Davidson]

Whoa. :blink

That's what I thought.

Think it's the same guy?

[Jermyn Davidson]

http://www.wnho.net/diplomamills.htm


A Dr. P. Bradley Carey discussing, "Scam Schools and Diploma Mills"

[MissBrattified]

That's what I thought.

Think it's the same guy?

I don't know, but that's pretty heavy stuff there...I'd hate to move forward without knowing for a FACT that it's the same "Dr. Carey." :blink

[Praxeas]

WHOIS isn't giving me info on that last one

[Praxeas]

http://www.wnho.net/

Doesn't Dr Art Wilson belong to that?