Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
If Jesus promises to be in the midst wherever two or three gather together in His name, then does this not mean that wherever two or three are gathered together in His name, He is there?
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There is no arbitrary number for Jesus being in the midst, or dwelling among a believer! To say that Jesus is there for two or three is to say He is NOT there for one or four or more! It's absurd that this verse is used as a guide for His being in the midst. I don't know about you, but whenever I pray alone, He's there. I don't need one or two more people with me when I pray in order for Jesus to be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Jesus gave that as a REASON why the binding and/or loosing of things would be effectual. It is effectual because, when two or three are gathered in the authority of Jesus Christ, it is the same as if He were personally present (which He is, by His Spirit).
The idea that verse 20 promises the presence of Christ in an assembly of two or three believers only in connection with a disciplinary matter is unfounded.
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So Jesus is not present when you pray alone? What about if there are more than just two or three, is He still in the midst? If, as you say, verse 20 is not about disciplinary matter, why then attach an arbitrary number to it? Why would Jesus, if speaking just about His presence being in a believers midst, why would he attach any number at all?
Because it stems from
Deuteronomy 19:
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15One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. 16If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; 17Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; 18And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; 19Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. 20And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. 21And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
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Verses 15-22 are all about dealing with this as a whole. The binding and loosing directly deals with the fault or sin. If the person is unwilling to hear, unwilling to repent, he is bound to the sin; if he is willing, he can be loosed from the sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Otherwise, there is no promise for Christ to be present with us in a corporate gathering of the church unless it is for the purpose of church discipline only.
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If Jesus is with us individually, why would you believe He wouldn't be with us corporately? It makes no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
The idea that verse 20 promises the presence of Christ in an assembly of two or three believers only in connection with a disciplinary matter is unfounded.
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Deuteronomy 19 and
Matthew 18 prove it's true.
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