Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
Hmmmmm.....I think I read somewhere that some men's sins go BEFORE to judgment and some follow after.
To the degree you see me as OSAS and my view as "insane and sickening I see your view as EXTREME legalism and Pharisaical! And we both know how Jesus viewed that. Imagine that. You can't even see how you are confused and how you are putting your confidence in your flesh.
I can lose my salvation just as easily as I received it? I don't think so and I am truly sorry that you do. You make it sound as if losing your salvation is only a minor act away. I believe in obedience but my obedience comes from my salvation not towards it. I obey because I love Him not because I want to stay saved. No matter what you say you cannot shake this confidence I have toward Him or the confidence I have that I will be with Him in eternity. I don't want to fail and I don't want to walk away from Him, which I know I can. However, I have confidence in His power to sustain me as I turn my face and heart TO Him.  |
WOW... so basically you have not refuted ONE SCRIPTURE I have said at all and my points on obedience in this thread. Yet I am extreme legalism because I view obedience as fulfillment of my response of faith to his will? ROFL! Your insane! You are my friend IF you do what I command. Jesus was clear and the text is clear that to partake of the tree of life enter the gate is to those who OBEY his commandments.
John 15 and
Mat 7:12 "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Mat 7:14 For the gate is narrow
and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Luk 13:24 "Exert every effort(AGONIZE gk: agonizomai,) to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
One cannot serve two masters and the Spirit bears witness ifwe are really his children. As easily as you placed trust in God you can deny him and go after the flesh. The parable of the seed clearly teaches this. Again your points of him sustaining you are always correct but it's not ALL about his sustaining power AND HIM DOING IT FOR YOU! It's about your choice and he will sustain you IF you choose him. He won't sustain you when you are a enmity against him as he cannot nor will. He will seek you but he cannot make you nor force by coercion. The prodigal Son.. "HE" clearly realized what he has lost and went back and THEN was declared that he was once considered DEAD and now alive again.
You say pharisaical and you lack clear understanding what was wrong with the pharisees. They where MORE CORRECTLY antilegalists who denied God's Word by there own teaching who heaped doctrines of man upon that which God HAD NOT said THEY WHERE AGAINST HIS LAW and law breakers for it. SHOW ME! PROVE ME that the doctrine I speak is of man! It is HIS Word that I have shown you and yet you deny it! I have shown you plainly his teachings but you negate the truth of the obligation and yoke he has given us.
Just as the yoke was not hard for Israel to do it is not neither to hard for us to do his commandments as his burden is light and not hard to do as well.
Deu 30:10 when you obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that are written in this Book of the Law, when you
turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 30:11 "For this commandment that I command you today is not
too hard (IMPOSSIBLE)for you, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
Deu 30:14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
Deu 30:15 "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.
JEsus clearly showed unto life or unto death by our deeds in response to HIS WORD! IT IS THE SAME LAW!
John 15 that he was proved by and SO ARE WE!
IT is the same principle today with the Law of Christ it is has not changed but administrations and empowerment unto perfection by the Spirit.
I have never said it is by the power of my flesh! It is my choice through the empowerment of his Spirit that I overcome. You have fallen for original sin doctrine which negates free will. I have choice but am incomplete through the weakness of my flesh. I am not totaly depraved! You grab concepts from those doctrines of which you deny and spew them like they are your own saliva in denial.
A righteous man falls seven times and Christ has made a way. It is not by the "justice" (sacrifices) of the law applied to which it was but a shadow or figure but by the "justice" (sacrifice) of Christ that saves us. Faith is the value of getting up unto repentance of which then a man's heart is judged again "right" but the atoning aspect of the turning is known through his suffering now for justice done.
Eze 18:26 When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life.
Eze 18:28 Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
(Also see Matt 5:23-24 below)
Atonement only matters or is effective IF repentance and reconciliation has been properly made. You and others can cry I plead the blood at the judgment all you want but it won't matter because your past actions is the issue at judgment and ARE BEING JUDGED and whether they previously have made the atonment/blood effective on your life or not by abiding in him and his WORD that makes you clean. You have no NEW pleading!
Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
It is YOU who are loosening the reality of his commandments!
Matthew 5:19-20
I am sorry but as nice as you are, I cannot agree with you. I hope you understand!
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