For those that left the UPC...

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


G5219
ὑπακούω
hupakouō
hoop-ak-oo'-o
From G5259 and G191; to hear under (as a subordinate), that is, to listen attentively; by implication to heed or conform to a command or authority: - hearken, be obedient to, obey.

Read it for yourself, the question is not, we are saved by obediance, this would constitute a list no man could complete to be saved. But rather that our salvation is proved by our obediance as we walk with God.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

In other words after we are saved we become subordinate to God. But salvation is a free gift of God that was paid for us on Calvary. This by no means, means we can live any way we want to after we are saved. As Paul stated in Romans 4 Abraham was made righteouse because of faith, just as we are. But as Abraham obeyed and was circumcised as a seal of his faith, and walked with God. We are saved by faith in the work of Christ on the cross, we are baptized as a seal of our salvation. To not be baptized would be the same as not being circumcised on the OT.


those not circmucised were cut off as well. Does that apply to baptism.


That is the way I see things, I again say this, I don't care to dispute other than to lay things out the way I see them. As far as I am concerned you are intitaled to your opinion.
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One thing I notice is it says obey him, not a list of rules and such. Many have faith believing in Christ and he died for their sins, but smoke dope, fornicate etc....are they saved? They will confess Christ is lord and raised from the dead.


You qouted James 2 but let's read on to verse 24:

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"


Seems to go against your faith alone position.