Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
I recently heard one preacher bring forth the idea of birth of WATER being natural birth since we were contained in WATER in the womb, he reasoned. The water breaks, and we are born. But he brought something interesting out. He said the natural birth of the mother is just as necessary as the birth of the Spirit because MANKIND, not angels, etc., alone can ENTER THE KINGDOM. To enter the Kingdom we must have a physical body which we got through natural birth of water (according to him), and then secondly the birth of Spirit. Adam kept his physical body but lost his contact with the Spirit and never consumed the fruit of Life.
So it is as though man is HALFWAY there. We are all born of water and have a physical BODY. But now we need birth of SPIRIT. Having BOTH allows us to enter.
Thoughts? Apprehended?
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I would agree with this man's statements, here. I don't know who you are speaking of or if the preacher in question brings along any other "baggage" with his view... but what you have presented seems to be correct, to me.
Jesus' statement to Nicodemus was that Nicodemus (and presumably the rest of us as well) needed to be "born again."
Because of the way many languages used a metaphor to explain a succession of events, the statement made by Jesus was something of a double entendre. Both Greek and Aramaic (and Hebrew, Arabic and so many others) describe a succession of events as being "from the top" or "from the head."
In Greek, what Jesus said was that Nicodemus had to be "born
anōthen." This mean literally, "from above" and thus, by analogy, "from, or following or succeeding the first."
In Aramaic, the language that Jesus and Nicodemus were most likely speaking, the literal and analogous meanings are the same. See
http://www.v-a.com/bible/john_1-7.html#JOHN#3 - an online translation from an Aramaic Bible. Scroll down to read the footnote for
John 3:3.
Because of this double entendre, Nicodemus either mistakes the statement Jesus makes in
John 3:3, or he is replying with sarcasm when he talks about entering his mother's womb to be "born again." Either way, the discussion clearly involves two births. The "first birth" and a "birth" the follows later in life.
Thus, when Jesus says, "born of the water and the Spirit" in
John 3:5, He is not saying that the "water and Spirit" birth are facets of the "new birth" as GT Haywood introduced sometime after 1919, and as the followers of Bro. Haywood have maintained since. Instead, Jesus is simply following the pattern of the dialog consistently throughout the entire conversations.
There are TWO BIRTHS. There is the FIRST BIRTH and THE SECOND BIRTH. If someone (such as Nicodemus at that point in time) had only experienced the FIRST BIRTH, then they needed to be BORN AGAIN, or in other words, they needed to experience the SECOND BIRTH. There are just two births in view throughout this conversation. The first birth and the second birth. Being born and being born again. Being born of "the water" (the FIRST BIRTH) and being born of the Spirit (the SECOND BIRTH).
Bro. Haywood's "Water and Spirit" doctrine makes a jumble of the entire third chapter of John.
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