Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
No. You err saying "always." While it is true that many in the developing Roman Catholic Church held this view, many did not. Besides, what matters is what the Scripture says and not the contortions people have gone through over the centuries in their misapprehension of Holy Writ.
If "water" in John 3:3-5 is NOT the first birth, then where is the "First Birth" in this whole text of comparisons? The First Birth is constantly compared with the Second Birth ("Born Again").
John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh (First Birth). That which is born of the Spirit is spirit (Second Birth).
John 3:12 - "Earthly things" (First Birth) and "heavenly things" (Second Birth).
Why do you chose to introduce a third category into the discussion? ("Almost born-again but now you have to talk in tongues!"). You have been born from your mother's womb, haven't you? If so, then you should understand the "earthly things." But if you fail to understand the "earthly things," then I suppose Jesus' lament that he offers to Nicodemus may be in order. "How shall I tell you of heavenly things?" |
The first birth is what Nicodemus thought Jesus was talking about. Jesus was talking about a spiritual birth of water and spirit. Jesus said that which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is spirit because he was contrasting the two births in Nicodemus' mnd. JEsus said you Nicodemus must be born of water and of Spirit.
Jesus would never tell someone that they would have to be born first naturally and then Spiritually to enter in the kingdom. How does that make any sense? Everyone is already born of water in that case.
Secondly I could quote many references historically.. study it.. the church was not aware of the doctrine you propose until much later. Baptism was always a necessity.
There is not such thing as half born. Where do you get that? If you repent and be baptized you will be saved. Its a promise that the Lord will never go back on. There is no such thing as half born people.
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