Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Lest the actual beliefs we propose get buried with strawmen arguments:
The principle of why repentance is done is the same as baptism. Neither are works of flesh and self to make self righteous. And making self righteous is the ONLY ERROR of salvation by works in the context Paul meant it.
The correct emphasis is about the principle of what sort of works repentance and baptism are, without the baptismal regenerationalist argument which is error.
The issue is whether or not they are self efforts that are done through self-s abilities to make self righteous without God's grace making us righteous. Why does this keep getting away from THAT issue? That is the issue Paul dealt with in speaking of salvation by works, which is the implication folks give when they accuse people of saying we must speak in tongues to be saved?
Neither baptism and Spirit infilling with tongues are actions of self making self righteous.
The bible never says the blood is applied at repentance.
The bible does not say what makes the blood applicable. That is something taken from the passover in Exodus where the blood is put on the doorway and the New testament does not use that language of applying the blood. So why use that reasoning? Let us use the reasoning articulated in the epistles.
Which is why baptism and tongues should not be referred to in speaking of what someone does to be saved, as though they were works of the law. So folks have to stop using that language, since that basis of works of law are what they are implying when they use it.
So no one here can criticize people who believe we need Spirit Baptism as part of new birth by saying we require tongues to be save
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Mike, Is circumcision equivalent to baptism, in terms of it being/or not being a "work?"
The issue is that we feel we can do something to earn salvation, when in fact, those who have received salvation did so after God chose them -- the Spirit called them, they responded with a heart of faith.
I would say that if I spoke in tongues and then was vindicated as saved, I feel mighty proud of my own participation in my salvation. If I toiled for 5 hours at an altar to search through evils in my heart, I feel like I earned my salvation. If I were to whip my back in an effort to make me more morally disciplined, I certainly would feel like I've earned my place.
Mike, the blood has already been applied once for all people. It was offered at the time of the Messiah's death. The access key has been turned. We enter into that covenant by faith alone.
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