Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
Jason,
I started out my first 5 years with Christ among Evangelicals and Trinitarian Pentecostals. I had amazing times in the Lord. You have probably seen my testimonies about that. Far be it from me to say Spirit filled people who love the Lord are merely hell bound sinners!
This has been my frustration in life. I have associated with several groups of Trinitarian believers that were dynamic and spirit led. I enjoyed my fellowship with them.
It was through the word my understanding deepened. Like yourself I found Oneness doctrine to be true. This over time led me to start searching for a Church where I could fellowship around the magnificent revelation of Jesus!
How disappointed I was when I started attending Oneness meetings. Yes I felt they had the truth of who Jesus is. And yes I came to see how Acts 2:38 was the original plan of salvation.
But I also saw a people who had settled on their lees and very little vision or movement. So while I hold Oneness and Acts 2:38 teaching as truly Apostolic I don't have the sense that that is all it means to be "in the truth". |
I actually agree with you a lot on this. I really believe that some of the best music and preaching is within the oneness movement. I really think they could have had so much more impact in the 20th century had they decided that standards was the hill the would fight on and it was the hill their movement died on.
There has been such a mass exodus from the OP movement, especially amongst the young ministers I think the UPC is really going to struggle the next 20 years and maybe dwindle to the point if being totally irrelevant. And oddly enough I really think DKB is the best man to lead the UPC, I admit to being surprised that his leadership doesn't seem to be having an impact on the org.
If the UPC continues to be stagnant or go backwards, I'm not sure there is another oneness org to fill the vacuum. But the positive is that a lot if the oneness people that left remain oneness even amongst main stream Christianity. Perhaps in a generation or two trinitarians will see oneness are not the heretics they proclaim us to be.
Most trinitarians are really confused about what oneness is. The thing I hear most is they believe we believe that God was the Father, ceased being the Father and became the Son, ceased being the Son and is now the Holy Ghost. I think we've got to do a better job articulating what we really believe. But I do think were doing better. I thought both Bernard and Perkins got the better of James White in their debates and that Bernard certainly got the better of Gene Cook. But I think a lot of debates don't really reflect well on the oneness position.
I'm kinda in between a rock and hard place. I left the OP movement but I still identify with them quite a bit, however I like the conservatism, theology, and emphasis on the Word that is found in the Reformed movement.
I'm not a cessationist but I do believe OPs have a lot of things go on in their meetings that are 1)not the Holy Ghost but are attributed to Him and 2)in direct violation of
1 Corinthians 14.
I haven't ruled out returning to the oneness movement because my view of the godhead and baptism hasn't changed but I just can't see going back into the UPC and it seems like nearly every ex-UPC type group I've heard of or people I've been in fellowship with end up going charismatic. And I know that's a derogatory term but I'm not meaning it that way, I mean they don't just drop standards they embrace either mildly or extremely Word of Faith doctrines and preachers, and such. I want nothing to do with that even if they baptize in JN.
I don't just want anything to do with TD Jakes. Sure he baptizes in JN but he runs with Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Paula White, and Oprah Winfrey. Who a man ministers with says a lot about what doctrines are important/unimportant to him.
When my old pastor (an ex UPC) started saying things like "Joel Osteens preaching the same message as me I'm just going about it a little differently" and when they took a group to TD Jakes Manpower conference (and I think also MegaFest that featured Creflo Dollar & Oprah) it was just too much for me. When the minister who took up the offering made everyone wave stand up said "get something in your hand, everyone get something in your hand, now wave it around. Say 'this is my offering... God will bless me" And this went on for 20 minutes and the pastor neither stopped it nor straightened it out afterward, that was enough for me.
So that's a big reason I find myself within the circle of conservative evangelical Christianity because I'd much rather be with people who love the Word of God even if their church services are A LOT different than what I'm used to. Because I'd rather be that than Word if Faith. Seriously I think I'd just give up on church before going to a WoF church. It makes me sick. Literally. Makes my stomach hurt.
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