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Old 09-24-2014, 09:23 AM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Question For The Evangelical Type Apostolics

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Originally Posted by Jason Badejo View Post
I actually agree with you a lot on this. I really believe that some of the best music and preaching is within the oneness movement. I really think they could have had so much more impact in the 20th century had they decided that standards was the hill the would fight on and it was the hill their movement died on.

There has been such a mass exodus from the OP movement, especially amongst the young ministers I think the UPC is really going to struggle the next 20 years and maybe dwindle to the point if being totally irrelevant. And oddly enough I really think DKB is the best man to lead the UPC, I admit to being surprised that his leadership doesn't seem to be having an impact on the org.

If the UPC continues to be stagnant or go backwards, I'm not sure there is another oneness org to fill the vacuum. But the positive is that a lot if the oneness people that left remain oneness even amongst main stream Christianity. Perhaps in a generation or two trinitarians will see oneness are not the heretics they proclaim us to be.

Most trinitarians are really confused about what oneness is. The thing I hear most is they believe we believe that God was the Father, ceased being the Father and became the Son, ceased being the Son and is now the Holy Ghost. I think we've got to do a better job articulating what we really believe. But I do think were doing better. I thought both Bernard and Perkins got the better of James White in their debates and that Bernard certainly got the better of Gene Cook. But I think a lot of debates don't really reflect well on the oneness position.

I'm kinda in between a rock and hard place. I left the OP movement but I still identify with them quite a bit, however I like the conservatism, theology, and emphasis on the Word that is found in the Reformed movement.

I'm not a cessationist but I do believe OPs have a lot of things go on in their meetings that are 1)not the Holy Ghost but are attributed to Him and 2)in direct violation of 1 Corinthians 14.

I haven't ruled out returning to the oneness movement because my view of the godhead and baptism hasn't changed but I just can't see going back into the UPC and it seems like nearly every ex-UPC type group I've heard of or people I've been in fellowship with end up going charismatic. And I know that's a derogatory term but I'm not meaning it that way, I mean they don't just drop standards they embrace either mildly or extremely Word of Faith doctrines and preachers, and such. I want nothing to do with that even if they baptize in JN.

I don't just want anything to do with TD Jakes. Sure he baptizes in JN but he runs with Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Paula White, and Oprah Winfrey. Who a man ministers with says a lot about what doctrines are important/unimportant to him.

When my old pastor (an ex UPC) started saying things like "Joel Osteens preaching the same message as me I'm just going about it a little differently" and when they took a group to TD Jakes Manpower conference (and I think also MegaFest that featured Creflo Dollar & Oprah) it was just too much for me. When the minister who took up the offering made everyone wave stand up said "get something in your hand, everyone get something in your hand, now wave it around. Say 'this is my offering... God will bless me" And this went on for 20 minutes and the pastor neither stopped it nor straightened it out afterward, that was enough for me.

So that's a big reason I find myself within the circle of conservative evangelical Christianity because I'd much rather be with people who love the Word of God even if their church services are A LOT different than what I'm used to. Because I'd rather be that than Word if Faith. Seriously I think I'd just give up on church before going to a WoF church. It makes me sick. Literally. Makes my stomach hurt.
Jason, I guess we are both in the same place. We love the revelation of who Jesus is, the worship, praise and sold out desire to live for God that is found within the OP ranks, but the extravagant dress, hairstyles, and unbiblical mandates that are placed at the salvational level make it next to impossible to fellowship with them, which leaves you kind of out in left field. And looking around at the different organizations, and churches out there, the WoF is infiltrating almost every church now. It is just sickening to hear it. Bleh! Makes my stomach turn too.

I understand your decision to stay where you are at, it is the lesser of two evils, I guess, but there is always the hope that there is going to be more and more people that God will bring out of that mindset who will love holiness of heart more than the outward dress code, and who will embrace giving as the standard of the apostles, and not the catholic-led tithing doctrine, and who will continue to worship and praise Jesus as the Almighty God. I pray that the Lord begins to raise up men who are willing to stand against the flow and tide of the current OP churches today, and that one day such a church will open its doors near you or me, and even perhaps that the Lord would call you to begin such a work yourself.
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