Question For The Evangelical Type Apostolics

[Michael The Disciple]

I may have to do this in parts as its now time for bed for this third shifter.

So the answer to the first question (green) is:
I believe the basic gospel message is the God sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins, and that He rose again. And that if you will repent of your sins and trust in Christ you will receive everlasting life.

To me that is the gospel in the most simple form. True that can be misunderstood and twisted into easy believism, or OSAS. But everything is that statement is Biblical and is Gospel Truth.

The answer to the second question (red) is:
I think in the most basic sense they have to believe He is the Son of God.
I also believe they have to believe He died for their sins and that He rose again.

Well according to this I would think JW'S fit this description. From what I have heard I think they think Michael the Angel was the Son of God.

If someone believes that God is three distinct individual persons each with their own personality, will, ego (and some trinitarians DO believe this) then I honestly don't see how that is ANY different from the Trimurti of Hinduism. I don't see as DKB said in the James White debate on this subject "How that is One in any reasonable sense."

To me the true Trinitarian teaching is tritheism. If three co equal co eternal persons who are distinct from each other while each being God is not tritheism I would like to know what is?

But many trinitarians believe very close to oneness, especially amongst NON-seminarians. But even those who are strict trinitarians affirm that 1)Jesus is the Son of God, fully human, fully divine. The Great I AM, the Almighty, the Creator, the Judge, etc. So as I've been openly proclaiming, I personally do not believe trinitarians are lost, at least not on the account of their being trinitarians.

After countless discussions and debates with Trins I think I can say with a good deal of confidence they don't see Jesus being the I AM in the sense of being the I AM alone. They feel two other persons are also the I AM. Same goes with the Almighty, the Creator and all the things that make God, God.

On this basis that they believe in three persons who are equally and distinctly God in his own right I feel such a belief will end up in the Gehenna fire. It definitely is a perversion of One God.

We know that as it is there is a wide range of views on the godhead within the oneness camp. Everything from sequential modalism to divine flesh doctrine. People fail to make any real distinction between Father and the Son and say in Jesus prayers he was talking to himself. There is some bad Christology amongst oneness people, and some of it very heretical, some it just mildly heretical.

Well I cant deny that. Oneness as a general rule are not deep enough.

Maybe so. Either way they reject hell and eternal conscious torment, and so are in your camp on that doctrine.

I do not reject Hell. I am the only one I know that teaches it regularly. I do reject the eternal torment idea.

If you say YES-then doesn't that mean that an accurate understanding of theology is a REQUIREMENT for salvation? (Something the Bible never says to my knowledge). And if you say yes, then on what consistent grounds can you say they were saved when they received the Acts 2:38 experience if they were still a trinitarian?

It seems to me everywhere we look in the New Testament truth is essential to salvation.

We are saved by sanctification and belief of THE TRUTH! 2 Thess 2:13

I don't know. I personally believe none of us is doctrinally pure. I think we are all wrong about something (don't tell Sean). If we are sincere and KNEW we were wrong we would not believe that. But when you consider for example the multitude of doctrines about the dead, or eschatology, soteriology, and so forth, we can be sure we've all got somethine wrong. I don't think salvation is an SAT test. I think the gospel is ultimately simple. God is trying to save all those who will come to Him, not look for a reason to eliminate people. He can grant us doctrinal purity in heaven.

If you know you are wrong on something how can you know its not this? I believe anyone with the Holy Spirit can know the whole truth. Jesus said the Spirit would guide us into ALL TRUTH!

Hey just woke up at the PC will have to finish later today.