The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Ah yes, TL. Let's talk about John's Gospel.

What is the theme of John's Gospel? Believing. 3:16-18 perhaps being the thesis.

As I referenced 3:36, I'm not sure where you get "obey" from, though I was prepared to interact with you on that.

Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. ESV

The reason why it is obey is because the KJV is HORRIBLE with the dealing with the word "pistis" and present participle active and context which has been shown by modern scholars and why the ESV shows OBEY. You really need to do some research on the failures in this areas of which James White even shows among many that the aspect of John and his use of and context of "pistis" is a aspect of "faithful or "obey." Also this would be consistent wiht John 15 concerning obedience and the whole of Jesus teaching.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. KJV

34-36"The One that God sent speaks God's words. And don't think he rations out the Spirit in bits and pieces. The Father loves the Son extravagantly. He turned everything over to him so he could give it away—a lavish distribution of gifts. That is why whoever accepts and trusts the Son gets in on everything, life complete and forever! And that is also why the person who avoids and distrusts the Son is in the dark and doesn't see life. All he experiences of God is darkness, and an angry darkness at that." The Message

Point of note..... want to discuss scripture with me, don't ever use the lame paraphrase/commentary pieces of trash like the Message. Just saying...

36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." NIV

NIV is not a serious translation...

appears some varying translations of this verse... I think "obey" misses the parallel of the verse, "if you believe this, if you don't believe this." That's the structure. But either way, I can accept "obedience to the Son." HELLO! I'm not against obedience! I'm just don't see salvation because of yours or my obedience.

Then you simply miss the text and clear teaching of Jesus which is consistent for your own fallacy. JEsus view of believing is about response of doing. Giving up to obtain. Following him at the negation of others. Thus he does not see your belief until he judges the response. Just like Abraham. God's offering may come freely but he demands something. To say he doesn't negates the words of Christ. Want eternal life.... obey the commandments and follow me..... THAT IS THE GOSPEL!

The ENTIRE theme of John is BELIEVE BELIEVE BELIEVE. Every story. Every parable. Every miracle. All the issues center on belief. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

Exactly believe which must be understood with what is meant not by POOR translation which you used and modern scholarship is revealing and showing the effects of LUTHER and his poor latin translating. The context of believe is unto following NOT simply mental assent. Which is the point of all of what Jesus says.

The present participle active in NT Greek reflects an “habitual behavior.” It signifies a “process [that is] continuous.” (This also is still true in modern Greek grammar. For example Adams, Essential Modern Greek Grammar (1987) on page 81....
This distinction has been recently confessed by a leading Calvinist who is yet a staunch faith-alone advocate. Dr. James White writes about the verb tense in John 6:35-45 as well as John 3:16 in "Drawn by the Father": A Summary of
John 6:35-45 pages 10-11:

"Throughout this passage an important truth is presented that again might be missed by many English translations. When Jesus describes the one who comes to him and who believes in him [3:16, 5:24, 6:35, 37, 40, 47, etc.], he uses the present tense to describe this coming, believing, or, in other passages, hearing or seeing. The present tense refers to a continuous, on-going action. The Greek contrasts this kind of action against the aorist tense, which is a point action, a single action in time that is not on-going.... The wonderful promises that are provided by Christ are not for those who do not truly and continuously believe. The faith that saves is a living faith, a faith that always looks to Christ as Lord and Savior."

THus the "continous" view has the whole scope of the context in view not simply as James says "the devils also believe and tremble" but a view of doing unto context of believ"ing" or faithfulness. THus when Jesus talks about giving up one must do that before one obtains covenant JUST LIKE ABRAHAM LEAVING HOME TO OBTAIN! You cannot say I believe and not cast off they are seen withing the scope of believe. The message is about taking upon a yoke which is by contract to obtain.