Hate Of Reformed Theology

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Blume, both Romans 6 and 12 make it clear that we are no longer slaves to sin but slaves to righteousness. I don't dispute that.

I know. But what you feel that implies and what I feel it implies may not be the same thing. I think we are bound to slavery if we sin and do not want to. I would think you feel it means we may sin but should not be condemned.

What is sounds like is there is an anxiety when someone suggests that Christians don't still sin -- fearing that this will be license for people to willfully commit sin.

Maybe. But that is due to false teaching, too. We can believe we can get to the place where we do not sin, and yet not be condemned if we do in the meantime.

This is probably the similar argument Paul was beating-to-the-punch in Romans 6-7, after his wonderful articulation of Grace in the preceding chapters. The way Paul said it, the cross covers us historically, presently and in the future. Christ did it! So the reaction is, "well then should we just continue to sin?"

It should also be noted that "living in sin" is not the same as one who lives a life in the Spirit, but sins. This is hard to splice out in technical terms, but not so ambiguous when we see what this looks like (a committed vs. a uncommitted believer).

The reality of being freed from sin, and the "experiential" reality increasingly match as we are sanctified, but don't always.

This is a matter of maturity.

Otherwise, I make the Spirit and Paul a liar --- because I often become aware when sin is in my heart... and even when I act upon it. And it's almost daily! At the same time, most would not view my life as one "lived in the flesh."

But what is living after the flesh and what is not? I think it is reliance uipon fleshly ability to not sin. Most think living after the flesh is adulterating and lying and stealing, but Paul said it was something else. It is actually trying to please God through self effort instigated by trying to please God through sheer obedience to commandments.

And God views me as righteous, since I'm in Christ. So, if we are freed from death, sin no longer having reign on us, in the sense that it's no longer possible, and that's expected of Christ, then I can't be so sure I'm even saved! Can you???

Sure! I have lived and looked at it in the way I described now for about 25 years. I am not condemned to defeat when I sin, but just remind myself I have more maturity to experience and more illumination.

I don't propose an encouragement to sin -- in fact, I'd say the reality of the Spirit working in our lives, should produce good, obedient fruit. But I find it necessary to assure believers that they aren't sub-Christian when they sin, because they will.

I agree. I have maintained all along that it is not that REAL Christians do not sin.'

And He still loves them and doesn't condemn them (Rom 8). We have an advocate with the Father.

I agree, but I do not think Rom 8:1 is saying the same thing John did in 1 John 2:1.

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” 1 John 1:8.

Anyone who says they have not sinned is living a lie.

Right! But that does not mean we cannot STOP sinning.

In the verse above you must notice John adds himself into the mix of sinners. He says if we say we have no sin. “No” in the Greek is “ou” and is expressed absolutely, and emphatically.

John is addressing believers “In Christ”, not the unsaved.

Right, but that does not mean we cannot stop sinning. John even emphasized he wrote for the purpose of seeing us not sin. He was not being idealistic, either, for that is guile.

Here in this verse John tells us if we claim we have not sinned we make Jesus Christ a liar. John tells us His (God's) word cannot be in someone who says they have never sinned, or even in those who claim now that, because they are saved, they no longer sin. Again John places himself in the middle of this assertion by using the words “we” and “us”

“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:10.

He did not place it in the present. But, anyway, I never said we are not saved if we sin. Neither did Paul, in my estimation.

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” 1 John 2:1.
Can you see what a contradiction this verse is when we neglect the exegeses of the scriptures? “My little children” is referring to born again believers and John wants us to fully understand that point.

It is immature believers, S. LITTLE children, contrasted in the epistle itself from young men and fathers.

When we compare “That ye sin not” to the previous verse we can see John isn’t advocating sinning. He’s simply telling us to turn away from habitual sin. In other words don’t let our whole focus in life be on one big sin party without thought of the consequences. If that be your case, salvation has eluded you.

I think John meant more and yet that does not mean salvation eludes us either, though.